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How do I really feel?


EVIL_ED

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33 minutes ago, deltanedas said:

you want an anarchy server then run watchdog on an old laptop and port forward. boom you can now play with fellow gamer word saying gamers

Would honestly join if it means being able to extend on whatever I say.Screenshot_20230813_153539_Discord.jpeg.9c61c1f6520606b1ecc4f6ac828dd30e.jpeg

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its the guy whos gonna ban hitler question mark

 

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I haven't read the whole post yet (because aaaa), but I would like to say that you have a superbly valid point about conflicting ideas being foreign and the overdramatization of negativity. I find it very often that people set these out-of-pocket and completely unrelated remarks about 'Oh now you switch sides when you see I'm right,' as if all of their ideals are instantly verified once you agree with a single point they have. You can have different opinions about the same thing. Ideas aren't a generalization, they are individual identities.

People sometimes get upset for just criticizing something at all, like, yeah, it's a community made and contributed, but that doesn't give someone an excuse to make something as dumb as an... eugh... one-windowed grid inventory system (AAAAAAA)...

I do agree that the game is somewhat of an engine, but at this point, any game that has any sort of community integration is a game engine. Even Lethal Company practically became an open-world FNAF game the second modding got popular.

Also, I like your vision a lot! From my experience, I've had more fun maxing out my Speed Boots battery and getting a jug of ephedrine speeding around the station like an immovable rod rather than... sitting in a bar...

I get that it's an RP game, and I love RP games, and I can efficiently integrate RP with Sandbox and I do, but there is always gonna be that one person who just CANNOT FATHOM the idea of me having a goal for a round because they think the goal of the whole game is just... 'Roleplay.' 'What? You have an actual in-game goal to reach by the end of the round that you want to obtain instead of improvising roleplay with me? Blasphemy!'

I may or may not post more of my rambling opinions as I read on or I may set my deranged soul to rest on this, I dunno...

"Git infuriates me bro just let me commit the changes you freaking guy" -Obama, maybe

DOMAIN EXPANSION; TEXT WALL: YAPANESE!!

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I don't mean to fuel any fires started here, but did they really just basically use the argument of "snowflakes are ruining videogames" at one point? Jesus, get real. Of course videogame culture is gonna inevitably change, just as cultures and things as a whole will change with time. There's zero point in crying about it in this forum.

Like sure, you can not agree with the way some things are handled, it's the internet after all, but does it really warrant ALL OF THESE TEXT WALLS you sent here? Just relax man, it's not that deep. Just learn to have fun with the game and let go of the mentality that things need to be done your way or else they're not good.

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                                                                                           God's most gremlin-like little mime.

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8 hours ago, CloneTrooperSimp said:

I don't mean to fuel any fires started here, but did they really just basically use the argument of "snowflakes are ruining videogames" at one point? Jesus, get real. Of course videogame culture is gonna inevitably change, just as cultures and things as a whole will change with time. There's zero point in crying about it in this forum.

Like sure, you can not agree with the way some things are handled, it's the internet after all, but does it really warrant ALL OF THESE TEXT WALLS you sent here? Just relax man, it's not that deep. Just learn to have fun with the game and let go of the mentality that things need to be done your way or else they're not good.

I might have come in a bit hot because I've been suppressing these views for about a year and a half. This is a forum, the very place where ideas are meant to be discussed. I also think I'll feel a lot better for being honest than repressing.

As I mentioned, and maybe I was a bit harsh because I did come in hot, I don't hate wizard themselves. I just do see the potential of this game as a top down shooter, action, sandbox as far more interesting than I see it's role-play potential.

I've spent a lot of time with the game and have had some fun with 'intended play.' But, there is always this little 'Devil' on my shoulder that whispers, 'Wouldn't it be fun to do X, Y, Z? Oh well, you can't, because this is ran as a role play game instead of being gloves off as an action sandbox and if you do any of that fun stuff you'll instantly get banned.'

To me, it would be nice to have at least one decently populated anarchy server where it was allowed and encouraged to push the engine and game in whatever direction the players wanted; rules be damned because there are no rules.

A sort of steam release valve where people who get strung out playing by the rules could hop over to this server and just play without them. Personally, I think that would be healthier all ways around. Because then you could experience and enjoy the game in both formats.

When I play sandbox games, I like to see how far I can push things and what I can get away with. I want to see how many rules I can break; it's a personal challenge. But, the most popular servers don't allow that sort of play. Instead, I have to 'stay in character' and 'not mess up anyone else's experience.' It's very constructing and constraining because I spend the whole shift thinking of all the fun things I could do and constantly having to tell myself, 'Nope, can't do this. Can't do that. Can't slip people, steal their ID's, and take over bridge. Can't be Atmos and flood the Station with plasma. Can't get a weapon from under a tree and go on a rampage. Can't get even with the person who wronged you, then Sec ignored you, but then you got A-Helped because you took the matter into your on hands.'

My entire shift is full of me constantly having to reign in my fun and creative ideas to fit into the rigid and often times to me boring template of 'intended play.'

The last one also annoys me a lot. If Sec is going to be do-nothing Sec (which is typical) I'd much rather have the freedom to handle the situation myself. I had one shift where I walked onto the Station as a Musician right off of the shuttle and an idiot Mime slipped me and stole and smashed my guitar for no reason at all. I talked with Sec, and got ignored and told to wait until Mime smashed another instrument before they'd take it seriously. So, as any logical person would do, I grabbed a crow bar and tried to beat the Mime to death for being a (nice word here) idiot.

As you can well guess, I got A-Helped by the Mime and had to explain to an Admin why I was in the right and the Mime was in the wrong. Which, of course, should be common sense to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. But, yet again, I found myself in a situation of explaining my self pointlessly to administration over an issue I would much rather have had the freedom to handle myself. If Mime is going to have the freedom to take and destroy my property for no reason and Sec ignores me; then I am far more than well within my rights to beat the Mime to death. This is the natural and proper way to handle things. But, not on wizard. On wizard you get A-Helped for that.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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On 12/12/2023 at 3:17 PM, deltanedas said:

you do realise there are non wizden servers right

I absolutely despise "You know that non-wizden servers exist right" because anybody who says this most likely does not know what it's like to maintain a fork.

"Just make your own server lol! Oh just go on a different server!"

I'd like to use grid inventory as an example. I personally do not enjoy grid inventory however it's been merged, and thus my fork's final rebase is going to be right before grid inventory. However, what if something I'd want is after grid inventory? Or what if a massive vulnerability that has to be patched isn't? Yes, for the latter, I can always just patch it directly into my repository due to me not having the intention to rebase - but what about the former? What if the former requires something implemented from grid inventory? What then?

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4 hours ago, eclips_e69 said:

I absolutely despise "You know that non-wizden servers exist right" because anybody who says this most likely does not know what it's like to maintain a fork.

"Just make your own server lol! Oh just go on a different server!"

I'd like to use grid inventory as an example. I personally do not enjoy grid inventory however it's been merged, and thus my fork's final rebase is going to be right before grid inventory. However, what if something I'd want is after grid inventory? Or what if a massive vulnerability that has to be patched isn't? Yes, for the latter, I can always just patch it directly into my repository due to me not having the intention to rebase - but what about the former? What if the former requires something implemented from grid inventory? What then?

For context: I've never said anything along these lines and have no idea what it's like maintaining a fork.

But I don't understand what you're trying to say. You can play on WizDen without paying for anything and if you dislike which way the maintainers are heading the game everyone is free to take what's there and head their own way. I imagine this takes a large amount of effort, seeing as someone will be working on this on their own, apart from anyone that decides to help them. But replying like @deltanedas did to @EVIL_ED seemed reasonable, although maybe unproductive seeing as the latter already mentioned why they don't play on other servers. From my perspective both you and EVIL_ED come across as feeling entitled to the time and effort of other people.

Why should WizDen maintainers have to be concerned about if fork maintainers can use their creations/changes? Maintaining a fork sounds like a lot of work, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But why should it be anyone else's problem that you don't enjoy the grid system?

"После игры в Dota 2, русские рейдеры на Miros заставляют меня чувствовать себя как дома." - Me

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9 minutes ago, Bundle said:

For context: I've never said anything along these lines and have no idea what it's like maintaining a fork.

Don't worry, it was directed toward people who just think that "ooh I'm productive by saying 'go to a diff server' and 'fork it' LOLMAO this will get them".

 

10 minutes ago, Bundle said:

Why should WizDen maintainers have to be concerned about if fork maintainers can use their creations/changes? Maintaining a fork sounds like a lot of work, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. But why should it be anyone else's problem that you don't enjoy the grid system?

IIRC the point of upstream was to be an SS13-like enough where forks could pop off and do their own thing (citation needed). I also don't think any created fork prior to grid inventory/inventory rework has rebased (citation needed) - could be wrong, but many people don't like grid inventory at all.

 

12 minutes ago, Bundle said:

From my perspective both you and EVIL_ED come across as feeling entitled to the time and effort of other people

I honestly like the inventory rework and I understand how hard it could've been to code in grid inventory - but honestly? I just think that grid inventory feels... uncanny. The whole point of the inventory rework was to 1. refactor code and 2. make it similar to SS13's inventory system.

Screenshot_2023-12-16-01-47-19-99_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.thumb.jpg.42fa3011f57772bfc76674d1ceb61088.jpg

I'm not sure about 2, but it definitely was similar to SS13's system with item limits, sizes and more.

Hud_aligned_small.png.eaadd113497f199d876e9c5b1d98b912.png

The photo is from YogStation - a /tg/ derivative of SS13. Many (if not all) servers use a similar storage inventory to this - a bunch of squares lined up. If the bag was full due to storage/item capacity, it would turn red. Otherwise, you could put it in there. Compare the actual grid inventory to the SS13 storage.

I personally just find grid inventory super weird - but I don't like arguing.

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If you feel as though you aren't being heard it's time to find a new community, and I am being sincere in that sentiment. All of my bug reports went unfixed and wide sweeping changes were made instead, so I found a new game. Simple as that.

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22 hours ago, eclips_e69 said:

Don't worry, it was directed toward people who just think that "ooh I'm productive by saying 'go to a diff server' and 'fork it' LOLMAO this will get them".

 

IIRC the point of upstream was to be an SS13-like enough where forks could pop off and do their own thing (citation needed). I also don't think any created fork prior to grid inventory/inventory rework has rebased (citation needed) - could be wrong, but many people don't like grid inventory at all.

 

I honestly like the inventory rework and I understand how hard it could've been to code in grid inventory - but honestly? I just think that grid inventory feels... uncanny. The whole point of the inventory rework was to 1. refactor code and 2. make it similar to SS13's inventory system.

Screenshot_2023-12-16-01-47-19-99_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.thumb.jpg.42fa3011f57772bfc76674d1ceb61088.jpg

I'm not sure about 2, but it definitely was similar to SS13's system with item limits, sizes and more.

Hud_aligned_small.png.eaadd113497f199d876e9c5b1d98b912.png

The photo is from YogStation - a /tg/ derivative of SS13. Many (if not all) servers use a similar storage inventory to this - a bunch of squares lined up. If the bag was full due to storage/item capacity, it would turn red. Otherwise, you could put it in there. Compare the actual grid inventory to the SS13 storage.

I personally just find grid inventory super weird - but I don't like arguing.

I've hardly followed the development of SS14 and heard contradicting statements about this subject, so I have no idea if the point of the upstream is or was to be SS13-like. But I do understand it being frustrating with the upstream doing its own thing either way.

I've never played SS13. I've only seen gameplay footage/reviews of it, most of which I watched before even playing SS14. So I don't know the intricate differences between UI and controls from SS13 compared to SS14. I've played SS14 for less then a year and I don't know if these storage systems have names, but I refer to them as weight, slot and grid inventory.

So if I understood you correctly you prefer slot storage, which you say is also the one used by most SS13 servers. But what peaks my interest is what makes the grid storage feel uncanny and weird to you. I'm not here to argue with you, I'm just genuinely curious, because a large group of players indeed seem to dislike it. I do hope the current maintainers give enough thought to how their contributions influence (future) fork maintainers, in regards to the longevity of the game. Personally, apart from needing to get used to a new system, I didn't really prefer any system over the other. If SS14 is to continue with the current system I hope it'll be possible to specifically have your backpack and belt open at the same time, a number next to stackable item icons (e.g. steel) and the ability to rotate the grid itself (see image). Although maybe these ideas were had and thrown out for reasons I haven't thought of yet.

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I can't wait 'til I code it!

Edited by Bundle
typo

"После игры в Dota 2, русские рейдеры на Miros заставляют меня чувствовать себя как дома." - Me

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20 hours ago, Sosa said:

If you feel as though you aren't being heard it's time to find a new community, and I am being sincere in that sentiment. All of my bug reports went unfixed and wide sweeping changes were made instead, so I found a new game. Simple as that.

That explains the lack of Sosa in the NA WizDen servers. What's the new game, if you don't mind me asking? And are you planning to continue making YouTube videos?

"После игры в Dota 2, русские рейдеры на Miros заставляют меня чувствовать себя как дома." - Me

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6 hours ago, Bundle said:

That explains the lack of Sosa in the NA WizDen servers. What's the new game, if you don't mind me asking? And are you planning to continue making YouTube videos?

Oh shit, I forgot about how Sosa usually would be on Wizden. Least now it's known why lol

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its the guy whos gonna ban hitler question mark

 

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On 12/15/2023 at 10:18 PM, Sosa said:

If you feel as though you aren't being heard it's time to find a new community, and I am being sincere in that sentiment. All of my bug reports went unfixed and wide sweeping changes were made instead, so I found a new game. Simple as that.

"wyci love 💞"

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On 12/17/2023 at 12:36 AM, Bundle said:

But what peaks my interest is what makes the grid storage feel uncanny and weird to you. I'm not here to argue with you, I'm just genuinely curious

I'm probably just a pre-2023 Luddite because I'm used to list inventory, but I just heavily dislike grid inventories in games. I feel that grid inventory makes inventory management much more important, but that's just me.

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To come back to OP, first of all I'd advice to do a bit more proofreading. I believe that currently the length of and the repetitiveness of the post dissuade people from thoroughly reading and responding to it.
 

On 12/12/2023 at 7:04 AM, EVIL_ED said:

Seriously, we have the tools to create our own communities of this game completely divorced from wizard. I have waited a little over a year to find someone actually make an anarchy server that’s high pop and yet everyone has failed to pull this off. Part of me wonders, then, if perhaps I am in the minority and am wrong. Maybe people don’t really want to play the game this way. Yet, the giant ban section and endless lists of complaints about wizard would seem to prove me correct. It’s like we have the numbers to run own server; but not the organization to recall all these banned people and get them playing and make it happen.

When you say "we" I think you're referring to a vocal minority. I've not seen anyone apart from you showing interest in playing on an anarchy server, at least after the novelty would've worn off. I also think that the people in the ban section are less of a Survival of the Robustest and more of a Rules for Thee, but not for Me type of crowd. People will join hoping to be oh-so creative as to slip the captain, steal their ID and take over the bridge. Only to be killed and gibbed at arrivals (if the place isn't spaced at that point) by some technical assistants communicating with each other on Discord and calling you slurs after the fact. If you somehow get passed them you'll just die to an airlock, because all of them will have been turned into door traps after the first 2 minutes of the shift.
 

On 12/12/2023 at 7:04 AM, EVIL_ED said:

It reminds me of Minecraft. How I hated playing Minecraft on the bureaucratic servers where you weren’t allowed to grief anything because everything was build protected. Part of the fun of a building game is the knocking down of what people build. Half the fun is lost. Yet, Minecraft actually had anarchy servers that were popular and populated where I could play with others who felt the same way that I did. This let everyone have their cake and eat it too. Everyone could just play on the servers with the communities that they preferred to play with.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Minecraft anarchy servers the minority? I don't think most people would mind knocking down what other people build, but I know people would definitely mind other people knocking down what they build. This leads most people to play on what you refer as "bureaucratic servers where you weren't allowed to grief". There will be a subset of players that will want to play on an anarchy server, but I don't think SS14 currently has the player base needed for that group to be large enough to populate a healthy server.

Results may vary on these suggestions, but I still believe them to be more productive then your current course of action:

  • Start a topic announcing you plan on starting a server or ask if anyone would be interested in joining such a server
  • Advertise/shout-out existing servers you'd like to see more populated
  • Post in topics like (Off-Topic:) 2023 Rules Feedback suggesting one of the less used WizDen servers (Spider or Vulture) should become an anarchy server.
  • Set up a way for like-minded people to donate to help cover server costs
  • Donate to an anarchy server yourself to help cover their costs


Look, I'm going to be blunt. You mention:

On 12/12/2023 at 10:47 AM, EVIL_ED said:

This woke, safe space, hug box, mentality.

But, from what I've seen, you've put in about as much effort into what you want to achieve as the stereotypical cancel culture slacktivist that's commonly found on Twitter X.

"После игры в Dota 2, русские рейдеры на Miros заставляют меня чувствовать себя как дома." - Me

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50 minutes ago, Bundle said:

To come back to OP, first of all I'd advice to do a bit more proofreading. I believe that currently the length of and the repetitiveness of the post dissuade people from thoroughly reading and responding to it.
 

When you say "we" I think you're referring to a vocal minority. I've not seen anyone apart from you showing interest in playing on an anarchy server, at least after the novelty would've worn off. I also think that the people in the ban section are less of a Survival of the Robustest and more of a Rules for Thee, but not for Me type of crowd. People will join hoping to be oh-so creative as to slip the captain, steal their ID and take over the bridge. Only to be killed and gibbed at arrivals (if the place isn't spaced at that point) by some technical assistants communicating with each other on Discord and calling you slurs after the fact. If you somehow get passed them you'll just die to an airlock, because all of them will have been turned into door traps after the first 2 minutes of the shift.
 

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Minecraft anarchy servers the minority? I don't think most people would mind knocking down what other people build, but I know people would definitely mind other people knocking down what they build. This leads most people to play on what you refer as "bureaucratic servers where you weren't allowed to grief". There will be a subset of players that will want to play on an anarchy server, but I don't think SS14 currently has the player base needed for that group to be large enough to populate a healthy server.

Results may vary on these suggestions, but I still believe them to be more productive then your current course of action:

  • Start a topic announcing you plan on starting a server or ask if anyone would be interested in joining such a server
  • Advertise/shout-out existing servers you'd like to see more populated
  • Post in topics like (Off-Topic:) 2023 Rules Feedback suggesting one of the less used WizDen servers (Spider or Vulture) should become an anarchy server.
  • Set up a way for like-minded people to donate to help cover server costs
  • Donate to an anarchy server yourself to help cover their costs


Look, I'm going to be blunt. You mention:

But, from what I've seen, you've put in about as much effort into what you want to achieve as the stereotypical cancel culture slacktivist that's commonly found on Twitter X.

Not bad suggestions. Ideally, though, anything financial basically comes down to me not really wanting to spend the money to either launch a server that nobody plays on or donate to a server nobody plays on. Running a server is not cheap and I don't really want to go that far for no results.

The question I am trying to gauge is whether or not there is enough interest.

I would assume Minecraft Anarchy servers are in the minority. Yet, there are at least two that are highly populated. 2b2t and MineTexas.

A point you bring up, that I have also mentioned, is the frustration that the community for SS14 in general just might be too small right now to be able to support an Anarchy server.

"I also think that the people in the ban section are less of a Survival of the Robustest and more of a Rules for Thee, but not for Me type of crowd."

Really, that is the entire crux of what I am trying to gauge. If a large enough number of them would legitimately play on an Anarchy server regularly, it would easily reach a respectable population. But, if they really are just "Rules for Thee, but not for Me type of crowd." then we loop back to the problem that SS14 just isn't big enough in general to have the numbers needed to have enough people to support an Anarchy server.

As one can imagine, it's kind of difficult to ask banned people how they feel. Because, well, they're banned. So, trying to gauge how many of them would be viable players on an Anarchy server becomes a difficult guessing game on my part.

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On 12/16/2023 at 11:50 AM, Bundle said:

That explains the lack of Sosa in the NA WizDen servers. What's the new game, if you don't mind me asking? And are you planning to continue making YouTube videos?


I just work on Unreal Engine now and play Enter the Gungeon on repeat. There will likely be no further SS14 content until a more fairly moderated server arises, or developers stop interfacing poorly with the community. I genuinely appreciate if you enjoyed the content, space ninja was an unintentional swan song.

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