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How do I really feel?


EVIL_ED

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I have a lot of conflicting thoughts and feelings about this game. Even ‘this game’ is an odd things to call it. Because what we really have here is a game engine. One that is not living up to its full potential. But, more on that later.

 

I think what annoys me most about this game is something I’m not honestly sure who to blame at this point.

 

I think it’s probably of no great surprise that I don’t really like wizard. They make a lot of decisions that I don’t agree with. Like, a lot. Far more than I take the time to point out. As negative as people think I am; I honestly probably only comment publicly on less than one out of ten things I disagree with. If for no other reason than I would be constantly in the forums complaining 24/7 if I ran in and complained at everything I disagreed with. When you have a body of game devs and admins constantly making bad decisions; there really is no way as one person to constantly police that.

 

This is not to say that I disagree with everything wizard ever does. They have made good decisions as well. But, then whenever I compliment them for that, people seem snide because God forbid someone criticize people at one turn and then compliment them at another. I guess other people don’t compartmentalize as much as I do. So, the idea of having conflicting thoughts about people is foreign to them.

 

I think what it boils down to at its base is wizard’s vision for the game is something far different than my own. When I see Space Station 14; I see a chaos sandbox simulator. A grand social experiment. A live action demonstration of the principle of entropy applied socially. The idea that everything inextricably drifts to chaos and destruction to spite best intentions to foolishly try to provide order to what is fundamentally madness.

 

The more I look at how this game is ran; it is very clear that this is not wizard’s vision of the game at all. Wizard sees Space Station 14 as a multiplayer RPG; heavy on the RPG. I don’t like RPG games. I find them stale and boring. Wizard delights in realistic inventory management, realistic physics, and reams upon reams of bureaucratic rules.

 

One of these things is not like the other. Rules get in the way of the principle of entropy. It’s hard to let people naturally degrade into chaos when they’re afraid everything they want to do will incur a perma ban. In an odd, meta, sort of way; wizard themselves un-ironically have taken the idea of “ foolishly try to provide order to what is fundamentally madness” into irl administrating. In so doing, ruining the social experiment. In so doing, constantly attacking the very heart and soul of my vision of what this game is.

 

You can see this vision baked into the DNA of this game. Everywhere are little text bubbles and wiki descriptions double dog daring people to play the game in a way that will get them banned. Everything is worded like the point of the game is to push the boundaries of what you can get away with doing. Yet, everything about how you actually play the game is like living in a dictatorship that constantly spies on you. It is a deep and cutting paradox. The game is ‘sold’ on the false promise of what it’s own administration doesn’t dare allow it to be.

 

Yet… here is where I don’t know who to blame. This is why I have often stayed quite on this issue, really the biggest issue. Because these are wizard’s servers. And wizard can run them however they want. I mean, who am I really to tell someone else how to run their own servers? So, I typically keep my mouth shut.

Furthermore, wizard has opened this game up as much as they possibly can in the sense that it is licensed as a Free Software (Free as in Freedom) project under both the GNU GPL and MIT Expat License. People can also host their own servers. People can even host their own server hubs. People can even make their own forks of the game engine, game data, and game launcher.

 

So… really, it’s the community that is to blame. I mean, honestly, why be mad at wizard for running their servers as they see fit? There are constantly people playing on wizard servers. Clearly, to what boggles my mind, there are a great deal of people who prefer playing this game as what I see as a stale RPG game instead of as a chaos sandbox.

 

Yet, it’s also painfully clear that a great number of people would also prefer to play the game how I would prefer to play it. People constantly complain about how wizard runs things. The ban list on wizard is an ever-flowing river of people who performed the sin of daring to want to play the game how I would like to play it.

 

So, I mean, where are all you people? If everyone who was banned from wizard for treating the game like an anarchy sandbox would actually ban together and make and play on a server together; we’d effortlessly have a server just as popular as the wizard servers with people playing the game how we feel the game should really be played.

 

Yet, for whatever reason, we don’t. Why is that? Why are people content to sit and complain rather than actually do something to fix the problem? Especially when wizard has set out the tools needed to fix the problem. I mean, is it just laziness?

 

Seriously, we have the tools to create our own communities of this game completely divorced from wizard. I have waited a little over a year to find someone actually make an anarchy server that’s high pop and yet everyone has failed to pull this off. Part of me wonders, then, if perhaps I am in the minority and am wrong. Maybe people don’t really want to play the game this way. Yet, the giant ban section and endless lists of complaints about wizard would seem to prove me correct. It’s like we have the numbers to run own server; but not the organization to recall all these banned people and get them playing and make it happen.

 

I honestly don’t know what to do. Or, like I said, even really who to blame. Part of me feels like wizard is actively killing their own game. Constantly sending people away for something as stupid as welder bombing. (If you didn’t want that to be a thing, why did you make that a thing?) Or getting a weapon as a present from under the tree and then going on a impromptu rampage. (Again, if you didn’t want that to be a thing; why did you make that a thing?) People are constantly banned for the most trivial of offenses. People constantly complain that wizard runs things like they have a stick up their ass.

 

Yet, where are you people? The tools are licensed and laid bare. We have entirely in our own hands the power to make the chaos sandbox game of our dreams. It would really be as simple as to call it ‘Anarchy Server’ and run the game as is except just strip out all the rules. And, yet, there is not a single server that does this that people actually play on.

 

I think that’s part of why I don’t like the limitation of one window imposed on the new inventory rework. It makes it more difficult to play this game fast paced like a chaos simulator should be. It was just one more step, in a long line of steps, of taking this game even further in the direction of a stale and boring RPG game.

 

‘Inventory management is fun.’

 

‘No, randomly welder bombing as a clown is fun. Getting a weapon as a present and going on a rampage is fun. Inventory management is boring and slows the game down unnecessarily.’

 

There is a fundamental genre difference between a fast paced, action packed, anarchy, sand-box, chaos simulator; and a slow paced, inventory managing, role play game. These are two very different visions. Deeply incompatible.

 

I love the game Space Station 14 could be. I begrudgingly tolerate the game that it is. Yet, as often as wizard causes me to hard roll my eyes with the decisions that it makes on the daily; it is really our own fault that we haven’t set up a true anarchy community for this game that is actively active.

 

It reminds me of Minecraft. How I hated playing Minecraft on the bureaucratic servers where you weren’t allowed to grief anything because everything was build protected. Part of the fun of a building game is the knocking down of what people build. Half the fun is lost. Yet, Minecraft actually had anarchy servers that were popular and populated where I could play with others who felt the same way that I did. This let everyone have their cake and eat it too. Everyone could just play on the servers with the communities that they preferred to play with.

 

You can’t do that with Space Station 14. The tools are there to do exactly that. But, the only active community is wizard. So, it’s wizard’s way or the highway. And I don’t like wizard’s way. Yet, for all the bans and all the complaining; nobody has been able to establish a true alternative to wizard that people actually want to play on.

 

I don’t hate wizard. I just hate their vision for this game. It’s over-moderated. Part of the charm of a game like this is if a clown can trip a Captain with a banana peal, take his ID, take over the bridge; and create an amazing story to tell. Try that on wizard and you’ll likely get banned for being self-antag. I am of the opinion that Sec and Department heads have it easy on wizard because they don’t get the challenge that they should. In an anarchy server, order is established by the players actually being good at the game. If the players want to attempt to make order out of chaos, then they need to be robust enough at the game to force that into reality themselves. Rather than A-Helping ‘Clown did something against the rules, please perma ban. Made my job hard for me.’

 

To me, it’s far more interesting to see how it would naturally play out if an unregulated Sec department police brutality war against an unregulated Clown and Mime than to watch everyone half heartily tease this because Sec knows if they beat the crap out of Clown or Mime they will get A-Helped and perma banned and Clown and Mime know if they bomb stuff and take over the bridge they will get A-Helped and perma banned.

 

It neuters the game of it’s true sandbox nature and thus its true potential, in my eyes. There is an endless amount of creative ways people could play this game; yet under wizard there is one strictly enforced idea of intended play that people are not allowed to deviate from.

 

This hamstrings the game to where you can’t really explore ‘what you can get away with.’ You can’t really try ‘out there’ ideas. You can’t really test the limits of Clown, and Mime, and Sec. Because everyone plays the game like Santa is watching and you don’t want to be on the naughty list.

 

This might be kind of a goodbye letter. It might not be. I’m dithering with the idea. I originally played the game as an chaos sandbox before the rules came in. I then got banned for something as trivial as welder bombing. I got unbanned by asking to be able to experience intended play. Now I have. And, frankly, I’m finding intended play boring. It has a certain charm to it as well. But, let’s put it this way; if there was a viable anarchy server I would ditch wizard in a heartbeat and play on that almost all the time. Only visiting back to wizard once in a blue moon for old time’s sake. I’ve been waiting about a year or so for a true alternative to wizard servers that have not come to be. So, I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. I can keep playing the slow paced, RPG heavy game this game is day by day becoming. A style of game I find boring and stale. Or, I can go sit alone in an anarchy server because everyone who got banned and should want to play over there just left they entire ecosystem itself rather than migrating to an alternative to wizard. There’s no winning here.

 

Again, my intent here isn’t to get into some big flame war with wizard. It’s their servers. If anything, I’m more disappointed in this community as a whole for not stepping up and making a high pop anarchy sandbox server a real thing. Why knows, maybe five or ten years from now it will be.

 

But, I think the problem is that the community for this game is so small. There isn’t enough people who stayed after they got banned to build a true alternative to wizard’s servers and their vision of the game. So, that whole idea just died on the vine. Wizard’s servers and the people who like playing that way ended up being all that was left after the mass, sweeping bans that happen constantly.

 

It’s a shame too, because the game had so much potential as a chaos sandbox. But, as it stands, to me anyway, it’s a massively over-hyped RPG game. And I don’t really like RPG games. I tried to ignore the RPG elements as much as I possibly could. But, they keep creeping in more and more all the time. It’s getting to a breaking point where I can’t really play this game at all how I’d prefer to play it. As is, this is not an anarchy chaos simulator. It’s not a sand box. This is not a grand social experiment. It’s a stale RPG with atoms simulation tacked onto it. And that’s really just a very boring idea to me and not enough to keep me around long term.

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58 minutes ago, deltanedas said:

you do realise there are non wizden servers right

 

26 minutes ago, LowTierGod said:

Barely any popular and English ones (there's Frontier and delta and that's pretty much it.)

They good tho

Exactly. It's not that there aren't any other servers ran by anyone else. It's that nobody plays on them.

Which is why, on a deep level, I don't blame wizard themselves for this. Wizard has designed everything in such a way that building alternative communities (servers, hubs, launchers) is completely possible. As a matter after, each and every step of the technical side of this has already been done. There are other servers, there's at least one other hub, and at least one other launcher. The other launcher is even on steam for the convenience of people who like steam.

From a purely technical perspective; all that has already been done. The problem is, a multiplayer game isn't really fun to play alone. There are Russian servers, but I don't speak Russian. From what I hear, they are better to play on if you can manage the language barrier. Frontier Station is nice, but it's really a different type of game than vanilla Space Station 14. That doesn't make it bad at all. I enjoyed my time on Frontier Station and might play on it again in the future more. But, my point still stands, there really isn't a true anarchy server that has a decent player population. Frankly, there are barely any alternative English speaking servers with a population. I should try Delta just to see what it is. But, even now, there's only 24 people on it. Most other servers have 0 people in them.

It's a taste thing. So, again, wizard prefers an RPG and wants to moderate like that. That's not in and of itself a bad thing. It's just, when I saw Space Station 14 I didn't see an RPG. I saw a sandbox. I learned about SS14 after watching Youtube videos about crazy stories from SS13. The insane things people pulled off in game and made videos about. So, I looked for a Free Software alternative to Space Station 13 because I prefer Free Software and GNU + Linux over proprietary software and windows. That's how I found Space Station 14.

When I first found this game, there was no account system. Which didn't bother me. I preferred it. There's no need for an account system because the only thing an account system is good for is banning people. Why would anyone ever need to be banned from a chaos, anarchy sandbox? That's just a silly idea. An oxymoron. There were no rules either. At least, as far as I can tell, none that were posted and actually enforced. Again, without an account system, there was no real way to enforce them anyway. Which, again, made sense. Why would anyone need rules in a chaos, anarchy sandbox? That's just a silly idea. An oxymoron. There were no role timers. Of course not. There was no account system. After all, why would anyone need role timers in a chaos, anarchy sandbox? That's just a silly idea. An oxymoron.

That's the state I discovered this game in. And, frankly, I absolutely loved it. The game was absolutely everything I wanted it to be. A little short on content. A little sad to see it switched to a GNU GPL and MIT Expat blend license instead of staying purely GNU GPL. The GNU GPL provides copyleft protection that defends user freedom better than the MIT Expat license that does not. Aside from those two things, the game was everything I wanted.

I've enjoyed the content updates. More species, antags, items. All good stuff.

But, as far as I'm concerned, the introduction of the account system was the beginning of the end for this game. Because with the account system came the rules, and a way to enforce the rules, and role timers, and role timer extensions. With the introduction of an account system came control. Control to shove down peoples' throats 'intended play.' And 'intended play' is just the oxymoron of mental handcuffs applied to a chaos, anarchy sandbox. 'Intended play' is completely and 100% antithetical to everything I loved about this game. It's like they unbuttoned their pants and took a steaming hot crap right on the heart and soul of what made this game special and unique with 'Intended play;' as far as I'm concerned.

Again, it's their servers so they obviously can run them as they see fit. But, to me, it was the death of the vision, the potential, that this game had to be something better than a stale and boring multiplayer RPG. Because I never saw this game as that. I see it as ridiculous to try to turn this game into that. But, wizards is Hellbent on trying to do exactly that. To me, the real potential of this game was as a grand social experiment of entropy applied to social dynamics. A bunch of people, in a giant sand box, some trying to be Sec and Command trying to forcibly establish order, while everyone else hues the ship towards it's inevitable chaotic and anarchic end.

That grand social experiment is only ever hampered by rules where you can't sneeze the wrong way without getting A-Helped for breaking the rules. The very reason there are so many rules is because they go so much against the grain of what this game really is deep down. It's like trying to tame this wild, unwieldy thing. The game naturally lends itself to everyone being able to do anything and inventing new and dynamic ways to be a menace within the game. The rules would have to continuously stretch on forever to try to think up of how to ban everything that isn't 'intended play.' Which is why the rules keep getting stretched on forever. Because wizard has placed themselves in the unenviable position of trying to apply bureaucracy and rules to a chaos sandbox. It's a truly never ending disaster than only robs the game of its beauty and sends players away en mass with bans.

I obviously can't convince wizard to stop persisting in its folly. I'm just sad that others haven't stepped up to the plate to offer the alternative community for this game that this game truly deserves. A server, that actually has people playing on it, that just turns off the account system and deletes the rules. So simple, so elegant, yet we still don't have it.

I don't even mind wizard servers existing and being ran the way they are in parallel to an anarchy server. 'Intended play' actually can be fun in its own way, once in a while. But, overall, I quickly find it boring. I keep thinking of all the fun things that I and others could do, but can't, because that would break the rules. It's a horrible way to play a game like this and it's sad that the only real servers people play on are these servers.

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11 minutes ago, kaishiba said:

Ok

If you want an anarchy server go make one?

(they never work)

I've considered that. But, I've also noticed that.

What I'm trying to figure out is why this hasn't worked and how to make it work.

In theory, it should work. It wokred well in other games like Minecraft. I used to play on MineTexas all the time and it was the best games I ever played in Minecraft.

With the number of people banned for doing or saying the exact kinds of things that would be fine to do and say on a truly anarchy server; it would seem to suggest, at least theoretically, that an anarchy server should be possible and popular.

I don't want to foot the bill for server costs alone. Nor do I want to do so and have zero people playing on it. I once saw one sit empty for a while.

So, seeing that the game has such potential in this regard. I'm trying to figure out what the problem is.

I mean, wizard shows the extreme on the other side of the spectrum. I saw someone have the audacity both in game and in the rules discussion to suggest that slipping someone with a banana peal should count as a use of a weapon. I mean, for real? Are people truly that sad? Are people truly so sad at this game that they want to be able to A-Help someone for slipping them on a banana peal?

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Depends on the slipping. If nukies are happening and some guy is constantly slipping me, yea I'm gonna ahelp that.

The thing is that Space Station has always been a RP game at heart. Yes there are some servers that have no rules and are basically no rp zones. But overall it's an RP game.

Even on ss13 it's mostly RP. That's just how the game is.

Edited by kaishiba
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I'm just tired of playing a game with people like that. This woke, safe space, hug box, mentality. Let's not allow slipping on banana peals. Let's not say anything that could possibly be offensive. Let's A-Help and perma ban everyone who ever disagrees with us or annoys us remotely in any way. It's awful. Truly awful.

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If you wanna be negative all the time and try to make it about you all the time, okay then.

If the slipping was normal. No I wouldn't care. But if the ahelp comes out then the slipping was used to disrupt someone else.

And no, not everyone who gets ahelped gets permabanned. Sometimes you're told to handle it IC, since space station is a rp game. But if it gets too far then yea warnings and what not.

 

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9 minutes ago, kaishiba said:

If you wanna be negative all the time and try to make it about you all the time, okay then.

If the slipping was normal. No I wouldn't care. But if the ahelp comes out then the slipping was used to disrupt someone else.

And no, not everyone who gets ahelped gets permabanned. Sometimes you're told to handle it IC, since space station is a rp game. But if it gets too far then yea warnings and what not.

 

I'm just using the banana peal as an example. I could probably rattle off about 20 more examples if I had to. The entire game is ran that way. That's the problem, in my eyes. Less so that servers exist like this. More so that none exist and get played on that are not like this.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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Just now, EVIL_ED said:

I'm just using the banana peal as an example. I could probably rattle off about 20 more examples if I had to. The entire game is ran that way.


I've done a lot of stuff ingame that you think is bannable and you'd have to do some really shitter stuff to be banned considering the stuff I've done.

You have to understand Wizard's den is not an anarchy server. It was never meant to be. Your "vision" or "potential" isn't even a main thing people want.

Both ss13 (for years) and ss14 have always been an RP focused game. Most servers have rules established and most servers are moderated.

The most popular servers in ss13 are RP related and have been around for so long that some people playing ss14 now would still be in highschool at that time.

 

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For context, I am thirty five years old. I grew up playing games online in a very different culture than the current climate. This isn't just a problem here. Really, with almost all online games and society in general.

Here is a picture, if you can imagine, of what playing games online was like in the 1990's and early to mid 2000's.

Outside of cheating, which people didn't like for good reason, if the game allowed it; you could do it. You could say anything you wanted. You could do anything you wanted but cheat.

If people didn't like you, for whatever reason, they'd just complain at you. You could just complain right back. All's fair.

If they really didn't like you, they just voted to kick you form the room. Then you made your own roomed named something like 'Not for cry babies' and about ten to twenty plus people would jump into your room in a heartbeat because they were also tired of playing with the cry babies.

That's how we lived back then. Now days there are giant rule lists for everything and God help you if you offend or annoy anyone with absolutely anything you say or do. At least SS14 has the ability to host your own stuff your own way. Most games now days don't even offer you that.

I can't tell you how fun games were back then. I also can't even begin to tell you how many modern games I have been banned from.

I'm from an older, better generation who handled online interactions a lot better. This modern way of doing things is so action police, thought police, speech police sensitive that it absolutely sucks all the life and fun out of gaming entirely.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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5 minutes ago, EVIL_ED said:

Unnecessary life story.

I am older than you and what you're saying is nonsense. There were still rules back then. Even in counter strike there were many servers with rules.

I grew in the cesspool of playing Quake competitively and was one of the most toxic assholes at local tourneys. I've been kicked out before.

Calling yourself the better generation makes you look like a clown.

This ain't the game for you then.

You're attention seeking and making moot posts.

Edited by kaishiba
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4 minutes ago, kaishiba said:

I am older than you and what you're saying is nonsense. There were still rules back then.

I grew in the cesspool of playing Quake competitively and was one of the most toxic assholes as local tourneys. I've been kicked out before.

Calling yourself the better generation makes you look like a clown.

This ain't the game for you then.

I grew up playing Worms and Aliens VS Predator and never had to deal with any of this crap back then.

Like I said, I usually don't complain because I've long given up the idea that I can change wizard's mind on any of this. I'd just really like a server I could play on with other like minded people to get away from all this.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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Just now, EVIL_ED said:

I grew up playing Worms and Aliens VS Predator and never had to deal with any of this crap back then.

Rules existed for a reason. Even in old games back then.

I've been banned from many games "back in the day". You're not special.

Again if you want an anarchy server, which don't work, go right ahead.

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3 minutes ago, kaishiba said:

Rules existed for a reason. Even in old games back then.

I've been banned from many games "back in the day". You're not special.

Again if you want an anarchy server, which don't work, go right ahead.

Well, I don't know what you did but I never got banned back then. I only started getting banned from things in the last couple decades. Kind of late 2000's onwards.

Rules do exist for a reason; the cry babies took over and won. That's the reason.

I've seen anarchy servers work in other games. Theoretically, there is no good reason it shouldn't work here.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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5 minutes ago, EVIL_ED said:

 

Rules do exist for a reason; the cry babies took over and won. That's the reason.

Rules have existed for a long time, even before the 2000s.

All of your posts has just been whinging and attention seeking. There's really nothing more to say.

 

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Just now, kaishiba said:

Rules have existed for a long time, even before the 2000s.

All of your posts has just been whinging and attention seeking. There's really nothing more to say.

 

You know the point I'm making. I'm not saying there was necessarily no rules. Rather, that there were not so many that it was so restrictive and suffocating. And, frankly, much of what I played might as well as had no rules because nobody bothered enforcing most things anyway.

I'm likely an Inverted Narcissist. Whining and attention seeking is literally my personality / pathology description. Expecting anything else from me would be a fool's errand on your part. lol

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2 minutes ago, EVIL_ED said:

I'm likely an Inverted Narcissist. Whining and attention seeking is literally my personality / pathology description. Expecting anything else from me would be a fool's errand on your part. lol

Wait, where is this going anymore 😭

image.png.a0dd3ee9e374fae105807d6ac1aee887.png

its the guy whos gonna ban hitler question mark

 

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4 minutes ago, LowTierGod said:

Wait, where is this going anymore 😭

Just explaining that if he wants to be done discussing this with me he can be. That if he expects anything different from what I have already written, then he'd just be wasting his time.

It's a personal aside. I said likely because I'm too poor to get an official diagnosis or anything like that. But, I have done a lot of reading and watched a lot of videos. As well as taken a lot of online tests. I score highly in a lot of the traits. It's a complex topic, honestly. But, it explains my antisocial tendencies pretty well. As well as why I have the 'toxic' relationship patterns that I do.

As a matter of fact, I largely play this game because I either got tired of or kicked out of everything else I used to play. That or things I used to play shut down. This kind of became my favorite game 'by default' as it was the last one left standing.

Also, as a matter of fact, I have tried playing this game as something of a social experiment for myself to try to learn more socializing skills. I'm very bad at making friends and this game is about all that I have left that I do socially. Which is why I react so badly to changes that make the game harder for me to play. Like the one window open at a time limit recently imposed.

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