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Waiting for clarification


KingOrange

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Game Ban
KingOrange - Taking monkey roles at round start and using them to attack players.

SS14 account username: KingOrange
Ban reason: Taking monkey roles at round start and using them to attack players.
Date of ban: Yesterday or 2 days ago.
Length of ban: Voucher ban

Events leading to the ban: I don't know what happened, just waiting for clarification from admins.

Reason the ban should be removed: I don't know what happened yet, but i am not using monkey ghost roles to attack people, instead, i usually take a human job or just hang and chill around. I can give you some examples:
Sometimes i just chill during the rounds and walk around the station and have fun with other players. I might aswell have a cool idea to complete.

Изображение Heres a cool image of one of the times when i played as a monkey. We were just chilling and running around.
But usually i just take a human job as a monkey and try to assist the station. I have a few examples for this too:
1. I've tried being a scientist monkey twice.
Ill tell you about the brightest one.
Once in a time i've became a monkey and went to sci. After the scientist let me in, i've crafted myself an advanced mop and went around being a janitor. Then i've seen a blood-red syndie getting chased down by security.
The agent got stunned and dropped his WT550, which i took. I've instantly gunned down the syndie to death and dropped the gun. The captain decided to award me, but i went into sci. My memory tells me the captain during that round was Jester-Who-Helps.
Then i crafted myself a CHIMP and started searching for a handheld radio.
During the search in security i got killed by an officer.
2. I also was a security monkey twice, tried to help officers catch criminals.
3. Besides that, i've also been a medical monkey.
I went into med and asked the nearest doctor to let me in.
Then i have recieved a nurse hat and a medkit, filled it with meds and went around healing people.


So, i am not a type of people who uses monkey ghost roles to commit shittery, i actually enjoy being a monkey, it is a new experience to me.

Anyways, since i don't actually know what happened, i'll be waiting for clarification from admins.
Lets agree, you can't try to justify your innocence when you don't even know what you've done wrong.

Could the admins please describe which event caused this so i could tell if i am actually guilty or not?

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You definitively appear to have used your time on a new round to take every available monkey ghost role (including trying to make new monkey ghost roles) as an excuse to attack random players, with a habit of abandoning your ghost role once someone crit you, immediately taking another, and resuming your attack on that person. This is in combination with an excessive number of notes. 

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Okay so, given the little info i can already understand what happened.
Now, how about i tell you the story at the different angle, from my prespective?
So..

Once in a time, science crew spawns a monkey to activate an artifact.
As a monkey lover (Which i stated in the post above) i took it because the rest of ghost roles we're mice/pai. From the start, i've seen a monkey cube box and as a lone monkey (Who got de-hydrated and then got hydrated once again) i've decided to make myself some friends to hang with.
Lets agree, playing with somebody is more interesting than playing with little no players in an online game.
So yeah, i've made myself some friends and then.. I saw how a scientist asked "Which one is original?" and took out a crowbar. After that i took a nearest welder.
Guess what.
Correct, we've started fighting.

Now lets take a look at the game rules.
Character Names & General In-Game rules --> Rule 6: Follow escalation rules. --> Rule 6.4 "YOU MAY ALWAYS DEFEND YOURSELF to the extent of protecting your own life. Once there is no longer an immediate threat to your life, you should stop your attack unless you have a very good reason to believe your target is an antagonist."
And rule 6.3 "YOU MAY ESCALATE TO THE SAME LEVEL AS YOUR OPPONENT. If your opponent whips out a gun and starts trying to shoot you, you are enabled to do the same."
The rules clearly say that i am able to protect my own life.
Now lets use logic. Since you can't self-antag or over-escalate as a monkey, that means all rules apply to you. And that includes these 2.
So, the scientists have spawned in a monkey to kill it, does that mean i am just supposed to stay there and die without making any effort to protect my character's life?
Now lets get back to the action scene.

I did not want to fight somebody and just expected to start RPing as a monkey. Of course i've tried to protect my own life since the scientists had to kill me for an artifact activation. 

Now i am gonna answer the reply.

"You definitively appear to have used your time on a new round to take every available monkey ghost role"

I was spectating the round and wanted to do something. As stated above, i like monkey roles, so i've took one. It is fair for people to take loves which they love.

"as an excuse to attack random players"

Once again, i just wanted to roleplay as a monkey and did not want to fight scientists.
After all, i've protected my own life.

"with a habit of abandoning your ghost role once someone crit you, immediately taking another, and resuming your attack on that person."

Okay so, the reason i ghosted when fell in crit is really simple.
No one really wants to wait 20+ seconds to just die without getting revived.
Why did i take another one? Quite simple, i just wanted to roleplay as a monkey. My new objective became is to escape sci and get healed at med to actually start roleplaying.
"Resuming your attack on that person"
Okay, after i took another monkey ghost role i was already attacked and wounded. Since i've seen how scientists were dragging around and hitting dead monkeys i could clearly realise that they were about to murder me.
After repeatedly trying to escape scientists have killed every single monkey.

Listen, i am not an admin but.
I was clearly following the rules and simply tried to protect my own life as well as trying to roleplay as a monkey, which was the reason i chose non-taken monkey roles after dying.
The rules seem to clearly say that protecting your own life even as a monkey is fully legal.
Or being killed for arfitact is an exception?
Was i supposed to stand still and get killed instead of trying to survive?
If so, this isn't written anywhere in the rules.
Ahelping the question above wouldn't make any sense since that situation would happen to you least likely.
Also the "Rule Clarifications" section rules clearly say "Questions should be vague enough that it is likely for the situation to occur in the future. "If someone welderbombs, can I kill them?" or "As a syndie, can I steal and hoard all of the station's food?" are fine, but describing the background of a situation in great detail likely means it's too unlikely to happen to be appropriate to ask here."
As an average player i also wouldn't be concerned about that as its quite rare to happen, and the default SS14 rules tell you that you may protect your character's life.
 

Hope you will have a nice day, but right now i will wait for admins to read this.

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2 hours ago, KingOrange said:

Since i've seen how scientists were dragging around and hitting dead monkeys i could clearly realise that they were about to murder me.

Ghost roles are not supposed to remember their previous lives.

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image.png.aec77a9db2471e0d9c572ec13d28700c.png

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  • Project Manager

At one point, Soliz Cotrole kills you. Soon after this happens, you take another ghost role. The following section of logs shows every log for both you and the player Soliz Cotrole:

image.thumb.png.a67e2143e02345b82ba55d3cb8626922.png

Do you remember why you attacked the player during this life? They don't appear to have done anything threatening to anyone in the time that you were in the role, they don't even attack you in response to being attacked. They are pulling a monkey's body when attacked, but I can't imagine this to be threatening. Bodies create miasma and don't get rid of themselves.

image.png.bc33d4c567502f1e0c0325f43cb6f70b.pngimage.png.a54e0c38b83579a437f56d4e5b55048b.png

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I've explained this a little earlier in my previous post, but i can explain it again.

So, after taking the ghost role i was at orange-green (Nearly orange) health and i saw scientists dragging around dead monkey bodies.

Since i was damaged, shouldn't that make me worried? I've picked a random target i saw after spotted a dead monkey body.

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  • Project Manager

Unless it was in a different part, in your previous response you said you saw them dragging around and hitting dead monkeys. In this instance, it doesn't appear that anyone was hitting monkeys during your life, certainly not the person you decided to attack.

On 5/5/2023 at 9:56 AM, KingOrange said:

Since i've seen how scientists were dragging around and hitting dead monkeys i could clearly realise that they were about to murder me.
After repeatedly trying to escape scientists have killed every single monkey.

Arguably, the fact that you were injured but not dead was evidence that people didn't want to kill you. If they wanted to kill you and had an opportunity to attack you already, why did they stop for so long? Importantly, you don't know who injured you, or if it was a person at all. Being injured by an unknown sources doesn't allow you to assume a specific person did it and crit them. It doesn't seem the person you critted made any attempt to escalate or attack you during your time in the role. It also doesn't seem like anyone made any attempt to escalate or attack you the entire time between when you took the role and when you put the person into crit. It seems the only escalation in that period of time was you attacking them. Your only justification for this seems to be that you saw someone dragging a monkey body, which I've explained needs to be done since bodies don't take care of themselves, and that you were injured. You admit that this caused you to pick a random target, and you then attacked them to crit. I'm not sure what part of the escalation rules you think allows you to attack random people. You aren't defending yourself by attacking a random person, you're RDMing.

image.png.bc33d4c567502f1e0c0325f43cb6f70b.pngimage.png.a54e0c38b83579a437f56d4e5b55048b.png

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Okay so.

You're actually right at a few moments.

About the corpses... 

Why would scientists drag the bodies into artifact chamber? Isn't it better to take them to med for biomass, to cargo for money or to kitchen for meat?

I am not sure if dead bodies activate artifacts.

So what if its not activated, would i get killed? That also took a point.

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  • Project Manager

I have no idea where the scientists were going with the bodies or what they were planning on doing with them, but you don't seem to either. Regardless of what they were planning on doing with them, all you actually saw them do is moving them which I'm not sure can be reasonably seen as any sort of escalation or threatening action on their part.

Even if it could, by your own admission you picked a random person to attack. You then continued to attack them despite no escalation on their end.

28 minutes ago, KingOrange said:

So what if its not activated, would i get killed? That also took a point.

I can't understand what you're trying to say here. If this is you asking what if the scientists were trying to activate the artifact by killing monkeys, and what if the artifact didn't activate, would they kill you? Then that's way too many "what if"s to justify critting someone who never attempted to attack or threaten you.

image.png.bc33d4c567502f1e0c0325f43cb6f70b.pngimage.png.a54e0c38b83579a437f56d4e5b55048b.png

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Okay.
Yeah, there are a lot of "What if" which aren't really good enough to attack a person, although during the combat situation (Where you mainly think about combat) it seemed alright to me, i didn't give it that much attention.
In-game, especially during battles people think less about important things like the rules, everybody focus on combat, for obvious reasons.
In conclusion, after reading your messages and thinking, i've realised that i was wrong. Sadly i didn't understand it earlier, during that round.
I've given you reasons why i shouldn't be banned, you gave me reasons why i should be banned.
I think thats all i can say that might be important for this case.
You know that i am trying to improve, make the game funnier with my actions (Both as antag and non-antag), i am trying to be nice to people. I have a good and bad sides. Sometimes i break rules, sometimes i make rounds a lot better.
You can keep the ban and shame me if i deserve this, lower it or accept the appeal, but just... this was a small misunderstanding with the scientists.
Just, i wish to say sorry to all the scientists who have been attacked by monkeys during that round, to all the people who got offended in the past in any way.

No matter what the decision of the admin team will be, i just hope whoever reads this will have a nice day.

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  • Project Manager

The consensus of the admin team is that a ban was appropriate in this case. Due to your ban history, our policy requires that any ban be a voucher ban. You can appeal no sooner than 6 months from the date of your ban and must present a voucher of good behavior from a well known SS14 or SS13 server with your appeal. The date of your ban was 2023-05-03 so you can appeal no sooner than 2023-11-03.

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