Planetace - Day Ban for Claimed "Self-Antag"

[Planetace]

SS14 account username: Planetace

Ban reason: "Self Antagging by using dubiously earned AA to harass sec and beat secoff into crit as a nonantag."

Date of ban: Thursday, April 13th, 2023 8:42 PM UTC

Length of ban: 1440 minutes, day ban

Events leading to the ban: I had acquired AA through legal paperwork involving an "AA voucher" stamped by both the HoP and Captain, the latter of who directly stamped it in-person right on the bridge. I roleplayed accordingly to continuously request HoP to provide me the necessary credentials, and eventually, he acquiesced and gave me the same perms as HoP and then said, and I (hopefully correctly) quote, "Have fun and do good."

I took the credentials and upgraded them into AA as befitting the paperwork, and decided to pay Sec a visit and have a tour of the place. I did not enter Sec to "harass" secoffs, that is a pure lie on whatever report was laid upon me. The true event was that, almost immediately, a secoff took his own vendetta on me (believing me to be a "shitter"), against any orders from HoS or Warden, and self-arrested me without trial or proper detainment protocols. He ignored my pleas to get Captain or HoP into Security so they can vet me out, and shoved me straight into a cell. This is including a few other Secoffs coming in, stripping me of all my belongings and ID, and then  throwing away the key.

Eventually, one secoff let me out, but refused to provide me any of my legally acquire items, such as my tools and most importantly - my ID. I stuck around Sec despite his warnings due to the simple fact that he had not given back my stolen gear, I was simply waiting for him to give back my items and then I'd be off on my way.

The secoff, who mind you was not HoS or Warden, went ahead and self-assigned full perma punishment after being too annoyed by my presence in Sec. He continuously brutalised me and punished me for the simple act of wanting my lawful items back. Eventually other people let me out of cell, but the affromentioned Secoff began to chase me with his stun baton - not wanting to let my personal and illegal perma to end. I managed to snag my bag (laid out at the front) and take my baseball bat, which I then used to defend myself against the secoff pretending to be HoS.

The reason the ban should be removed: All of these events hold out in both roleplay and rule settings. The admin who assigned me my ban never went forward to me personally to ask my side of the story, I was even around post-round in the lobby and did not get any Ahelp messages. Additionally, if you really want to punish someone for providing "dubious access", the HoP was the one who committed the infraction to begin with, and the Captain never once stopped me from using the bridge ID computer to upgrade my status to AA (He even complimented me for finally managing to acquire it.)

The secoff in Security who continuously brutalized me and assigned punishment without foreword from HoS or Warden had, in my opinion, gotten off light with a beating to crit. I did not want to do it, but I was force to considering how he had been harassing me for over 20 minutes in that round. (from my estimations). Other secoffs were even questioning why I was being punished to begin with, and no contra had been found on my person, as I was law-abiding. The only "thing" Sec charged me with was my legally acquired AA.

Being slapped with a ban is both frustrating and utterly devoid of any attempts to understand the full context.

[Chief_Engineer]

Hi, I looked through the logs. I tried to be quick since your ban duration is so short, so please let me know if I missed anything important or if anything is inaccurate.

1. You are not an antag during the round
2. You steal a technical assistant's ID from them while they are dying
3. You use the ID to take tools and a hardsuit from engineering
4. You take a chef's ID from a PDA
5. You pick up a piece of paper that says "Free AA voucher" on it
6. You try to redeem the voucher with the captain, saying it was stamped by the HOP
7. You try to redeem the voucher with the HOP, saying it was stamped by the captain
8. You're given service access
9. You complain that your ID does not have AA
10. You decide to hack into the HOP office, because you equate having stamps on a piece of paper that  says "Free AA  voucher" with permission to do that
11. You are unable to modify your own access
12. You are given HOP access on your ID
13. You use your HOP access to give an ID you stole earlier AA, and rename it "Inconspicuous ID"
14. You use your stolen AA ID to give your ID AA, and rename it "AA Passenger"
15. You start going through evidence lockers and taking things from them
16. You are arrested
17. You threaten to call centcom if you are not released with all of your things, including the ID
18. You are released, but not with all of your things
19. You complain IC that you can't do anything other than "cry to admemes" and say that, if you do that, they'll just say it's an IC issue
20. You continue to annoy sec
21. You're permad
22. You attack someone with a bat, with no apparent prior escalation
23. You're released without the bat, and demand the bat
24. You claim to have critted the HOS for unlawful arrest
25. You take a medical intern's ID
26. You take a passenger ID and attempt to use it to give yourself AA

[Planetace]

1. Yes I was not an antag.

2. The technician was, from what I'd heard, a reported syndicate who had been constantly cutting wires within the maints. If stealing non-contra from syndicates is not allowed, then my apologies.

3. The tools and hardsuit were from said supposed syndicate.

4. Chef's PDA was just curiosity, I parted with it almost immediately.

5. Yep.

6. Yep, Captain went ahead and stamped it himself. The reason why I asked him was that HoP, I believe, was dead at the time.

7. Yep.

8. Yep but didn't know it wasn't AA, so I tested.

9. Yep, under roleplay I would've expected a captain-stamped AA to be granted.

10. The HoP office had been previously bombed, but their computer was inside their office. I broke in to move the Computer to its normal position. Not a smart choice in retrospect, should have asked HoP for direct permission, will take note next time.

11. Didn't even try. HoP did.

12. By HoP.

13. Syndie ID repurposed into spare ID.

14. Cap asked me to do that.

15. With the number of syndicates, I assumed those in jail were them and their items would be under duress and not be used for the rest of the round. My apologies if this constitutes stealing, it won't happen again.

16. Yep.

17. Security was rash and the arrest was conducted by a single individual, I believed that would have constituted as A-help territory.

18. Pretty much released with only my clothing - my bag and ID were confiscated and I wanted them back.

19. The stress caused by Sec was making my actions as a player bleed into my OOC state.

20. I only asked for my ID and simply hung around, nowhere near harassment or perma'ble action.

21. Without justification nor HoS and Warden input. Lone Secoff did it by themselves.

22. Sec officer was repeatedly forcing me into cell while others were dragging me out, I grabbed bat from my bag as the officer was attempting to down me again for the third time, and critted him out of desperation since at this point I was tired of them taking the initiative and against the rest of Sec.

23. I never demanded it, It was on the floor. I just re-acquired it and put it back in my backpack.

24. I believed them to be HoS since they were acting as head, but later found out they were just a normal officer. I still wanted to state that they were unlawfully being rash in their decision and that they should be demoted. I never went after any others in sec, nor attacked anyone afterwards. I stopped at them and them alone.

25. It was the only spare ID available, no one had claimed it or was using it, and I had no ID since sec stole both from me.

26. Put it in but was only trying to rename.

 

[Chief_Engineer]

23 minutes ago, Planetace said:

2. The technician was, from what I'd heard, a reported syndicate who had been constantly cutting wires within the maints. If stealing non-contra from syndicates is not allowed, then my apologies.

Typically, syndicate items should be left for security to deal with. Reports that someone is a syndicate don't allow players to freely steal from the alleged syndicate.

26 minutes ago, Planetace said:

15. With the number of syndicates, I assumed those in jail were them and their items would be under duress and not be used for the rest of the round. My apologies if this constitutes stealing, it won't happen again.

Even security is typically not permitted to take items of brigged people, other than to secure them during their arrest or return them to someone they had been stolen from. There are exceptions to this, but none seem to apply in this case. While you were not security, the restrictions that apply to security specific tasks, like securing prisoner items or distributing weapons, typically apply to all non-antags. Imagine if someone had attempted to use this same reasoning to take all of your items while you were brigged, requiring security to track down each of your items if they wanted to get them back to you once released.

31 minutes ago, Planetace said:

17. Security was rash and the arrest was conducted by a single individual, I believed that would have constituted as A-help territory.

While you're free to ahelp anything you feel need admin attention, security officers often do conduct arrests as single individuals, and it appears that the arrest would have been justified based on you entering the brig and taking things from evidence lockers. Regardless of someone's access, security is typically free to enforce reasonable restrictions on brig entry, and even those with access may be arrested for taking items from evidence lockers, equipment room, or armory without permission.

You are encouraged to ahelp when you feel admin attention or intervention is needed, but threats or warnings made to other players to get admins involved are typically detrimental to roleplay. Admins will typically only enforce severe rule violations, such as our zero tolerance rules, against people who have been threatened with admin intervention.

40 minutes ago, Planetace said:

20. I only asked for my ID and simply hung around, nowhere near harassment or perma'ble action.

You appear to pickup a security hardsuit, duffel bag, headset, PDA, stun baton. This is while making demands that they give you back your ID.

 

While you asking, or even demanding, your ID back is likely well within an IC issue, picking up security items, particularly a bag, gives security reasonable justification to search you. Having a stun baton gives security more than enough reason to immediately attempt to arrest you so that they can safely search you, and the demeanor communicated by your chat messages can add to the justification for acting quickly to regain control of any items you may be in possession of. Without additional context, there's no apparent justification for putting you in perma.

 

 

You're free to respond to any of the above if you'd like to, but aren't required to. An internal discussion has begun and includes the series of events with your corrections. It's possible that the internal discussion will not be completed until after the ban has expired. Regardless of when the internal discussion is complete, an update will be posted here indicating the results.

[lonesoldier55]

Admin consensus is to deny this appeal, ignoring the fact that it expired a bit ago since it was only a 12 hour ban. This is a lot of information to try and summarize, but I will try to outline our principal issue with your behavior which resulted in your (justified) 12 hour ban. 

• You went out of your way to try and obtain a large amount of extra access for no real purpose. 
• After swindling/convincing/annoying the Captain or HoP enough, you got a large amount of extra access, but not all access.
• You took it upon yourself to use your access to upgrade yourself to all access through some self-made idea that you deserved all access for submitting something stating you had a voucher for all access.
• While the Captain notably does not try to stop you, this does not mean the Captain is correct in letting this take place.

None of the above is typically an issue in and of itself. The issue starts when you go to Security:

• You go to "take a tour" or "visit" security, which apparently included rifling through several evidence lockers.
• Thankfully, security takes issue with a random, non-ranking individual rifling through secured evidence lockers that may be holding dangerous equipment and contraband. You are rightfully detained. As a side note here, security does not need to "arrest people as a team" and I am not sure what "self-arrested me without trial or proper detainment protocols" would entail unless they were using excessive force. Trials are not something that are even remotely required on LRP.
• Seemingly ignoring the fact that you just intruded into security as a non-ranking individual and started trying to (what could only be assumed by the officers there) steal multiple items, you continually are uncooperative and kick and scream demanding your ID back with security obviously being dubious of the validity of it. Having access to security does not immediately validate you or entitle you to taking items from the area.
• Your continued resistance, uncooperativeness, and threats IC that you're going to tell the admins eventually convince security that you are better off in the permabrig as you are unlikely to stop being a problem.

I see no issue with security's behavior in this instance. Merely having all access does not entitle you to intrude upon departments you are not assigned to and do whatever you want. Security was in the right to detain you, especially if you are going through sensitive equipment in secured storage. Your continued resistance to security only further worsened the situation against you.

Again, this appeal is denied.