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ERP is against the rules... why exactly?


EVIL_ED

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So, I’m going to stick my neck out and ask the obvious here. I hope I don’t get banned for it. But, I think someone needs to ask this question.

ERP being a zero tolerance perma ban is something that has had me scratching my head sense the rules came in. I have worked very hard to be very careful not to say anything that could possibly get me banned. And, to be entirely honest, this is a lot of work to be this self-censoring. It's just plain not natural.

The reason is that, to be entirely honest, this game absolutely screams ERP. There are so many mechanics that feel like the game itself was designed to have this as a feature. The very fact that we can strip or be stripped naked is a huge one. This goes even more so because men are anatomically correct when naked. There is even a mouth cover to mussel us that looks like a ball-gag. We now have pins where we can show everyone what our sexuality is... so that we can then proceed to not have ERP with them. That makes a lot of sense... There are individual bedrooms with beds that we can scamper off to. There are showers with little rubber duckies in them.

So, for instance, let’s combine. Security beats us down with a giant electric stick... then strips us naked, cuffs us, and then places a ball-gag in our mouth. I cannot tell you how difficult it has been to just sit there and not crack a joke. Before the rules came in, I and many other people did constantly make sex jokes during this.

I can run around dressed up in animal costumes. Clearly not a reference to furries at all… Or I can dress of like a Geisha… To take the cake, I can right click on book shelves in the library and examine them and I get told that they're “Mostly filled with erotica.” So, let me get this straight, the game itself can make sex jokes but the players can't? How is that fair or logical at all?

That's just all the stuff in the game now, as is. If you bumped the age limit up a couple years and added just a couple more game-play mechanics and toys you could take all that a lot further.

That all being said, it feels like even the game as is was created by people who clearly had a certain level of sexual humor and ERP in mind for this game. Yet, the people in charge of moderating the game feel like some sort of puritanical board ruling over it (no offense.) This leaves the players playing the game under a very weird self-censoring oppression. 'Look at all this stuff that is simply crying out for either ERP or at least a sex joke. But, don't you dare comment openly or act naturally in accordance to what you see, that will get you perma banned.' It makes the experience of playing this game feel like an oxymoron. Look at all this sex stuff, but don't you dare engage with it or comment on it.

My very first question, then, is why? Why is this game like this? What happened?

Is it that the game was not allowed to be listed on Steam (without being hidden away where no one would find it in the Adults Only Section) without this rule? And so this rule was put into place to secure that the game could become visible and popular on Steam?

Is it that the server host platform demands no sexual stuff? So, this rule was put in place so that severs could be hosted on an affordable server hosting platform?

Is it some sort of local law where the servers are being hosted that would make the operators legally (and thus financially) liable for sexual content? So, this rule was put into place to cover themselves legally?

Is it simply that the moderators of the official servers don't like / are not comfortable with sexuality being expressed? Like, is it a personal hang up on their end?

Is it that, somehow, to spite the game naturally swinging this way that it was all by accident? That there was simply no sexual humor intended to be present and the players simply took these things (which seem so very obvious to me) out of context in a way that was never intended?

Moderators would save themselves a lot of grief if they simply bumped the age requirement of the game up from 16 to 18. The ban appeals section is full of people who made natural jokes or took natural actions that this game basically begs / dares them to take by its very nature; and then they get banned because they innocently violated a rule they didn't even imagine would be a rule. I know that I was shocked when I saw the rule come in and I had to instantly be very careful of what I said and did in the game so that I could keep playing. I have to imagine that a lot of newbies who enter this game are quickly exiting into the ban pile because they made a joke or something and didn't read the rules and realize they could get banned over it. I mean, it certainly would save the moderators and players a lot of grief if they simply bumped the age up two years and then removed the ERP ban from the rules.

I think that this is an important question because ERP is clearly something that a lot of players naturally want to do. The game already feels very tailor made for it and it could easily go even further in that direction with very little effort.

I have to ask, then, why the restriction?

If it is merely to make the game open to a younger player base, then what are the realities of making ERP servers for adults only? Is that something that will officially be made at some point? If not, and if the players make them themselves, would the official launcher even be allowed to list them? It already seems odd to me to bend over backwards to cater to a teen player base. I mean, has anyone taken a census to see how old the average player of this game is? SS14 is a game that largely got its player base from SS13. Most of these people were teens in the 2000's and are adults now. So, like, why this push to cater to a younger audience; who likely isn't really the target demographic for a game like this anyway? (Most of them are playing League of Legends, Fortnight, or Minecract.)

Who is this game made for, exactly, anyway? It’s a game where most adult rated stuff is already allowed. I can smoke cigarettes and cigars, drink beer, grow and smoke weed, make and pop pills (literally to get high) roofie people at the bar, literally inject myself and others with drugs from a syringe, and kill people. So, let me get this straight, tobacco, alcohol, light drug use, hard drug use, and murder are all a-okay. But, people having sex is bad? Nobody pay any attention at all to the furry outfits, Geisha girl costumes, sexuality pins, love hotel rooms, shower rooms, amply supplied ball-gags and hand cuffs, suggestive stun batons, or library shelves stocked with erotica. No, sex is bad.

I just find this rule to be very befuddling and have to ask why it even exists at all. It seems so silly to me. Understanding why it exists is also important because it can help people understand what our real chances are for official severs that could allow for ERP. Or, if it would even be worth our while to create a sever that allowed for ERP if it wouldn't be allowed to be listed on the official sever list and thus nobody would be able to find it anyway.

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Yo wake up babe new copypasta just dropped

You can make sex jokes, just don't roleplay having sex. Erotic RolePlay is banned, not Erotic jokes. 

Of course, banning sex jokes is a case to case basis. Your best bet is to not reference Genitalia or Breasts. Or any holes, for that matter.

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28 minutes ago, JustAnOrange said:

Yo wake up babe new copypasta just dropped

You can make sex jokes, just don't roleplay having sex. Erotic RolePlay is banned, not Erotic jokes. 

Of course, banning sex jokes is a case to case basis. Your best bet is to not reference Genitalia or Breasts. Or any holes, for that matter.

I mean, if you want to use this as a copypasta I am honored.

But, I really am curious as to exactly why this choice was made. It just seems so odd when the game is already for an adult audience and already has so many other blatantly adult things and the game already has a lot of tongue and cheek sexual humor in it. To me, it just makes perfect sense to just bump the age up from 16 to 18 and let people just be themselves. But, they're not my servers so it's not my rules.

I'm just trying to understand why it is like it is and what the chances are of fixing it.

1: Bump the age from 16 to 18 on the official servers and just be done with it.

2: Make official alternative servers that are 18 and up and be done with it.

3: Allow users to make their own 18 and up ERP servers and allow them to be listed on the official launcher server list.

If we can understand why the ban was put in place, then we can have a conversation about possible solutions. But, if the answer is 'just because' then we're all just really left in the dark about possible solutions.

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Also, as far as 'You can tell jokes,' no; you really can't even make jokes. Like you edited yourself there. You 'can' just don't actually say anything about anything. So, like, that's a really weird sort of double-speak.

The short answer is you're best not to make jokes because if you do offend anyone then you're banned. Search ERP in the ban appeals section of the forums and they're full of people who made jokes and got banned for it.

The whole situation just kind of reminds me of the old high school, work place, politically correct, language police environments that I go to play games to get away from because I just got home from work.

This game just strikes me as particularly odd because in every other respect it's clearly for adults; but in this one, specific, narrow area it has a big old 'T for Teen' sticker slapped on it.

 

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2 hours ago, veritius said:

the server is 16+ and has minors

Correct. My question is, why is it 16+ instead of 18+? Especially considering that if I would to take a guess I'd expect that it has far more adult players than minors. Would it not then make more sense to make the standard servers adult only and make a separate sever for the few minors that play?

It reminds me of work where we start hiring at 16 and yet the 16 year olds aren't allowed to hardly do anything and we have to bend over backwards to accommodate them. Like every time they have to scan alcohol I have to walk all the way over there and scan it for them. They can't operate the cardboard smoosher. They can't run the self-check out. Wouldn't it make much more sense to not hire until 18+ and save ourselves the headache?

I see this situation as much the same. The rest of us have to bend over backwards to stay PG-13 about sexual topics in a game that has clear innuendo just to entertain the small subset of minors who play this game. Why not just ho 18+ and spare the rest of us the headache? Make a special minor server just for them and let the adults have their fun on the rest of the official servers.

 

2 hours ago, Rancor said:

Sexually suggestive jokes are baned, first hand experience.

See, exactly.

Edited by EVIL_ED
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  • Game Admin

Wizard's Den is a 16+ rated collection of servers. Any other unofficial servers are not bound by our personal server rules. While there are hub rules, iirc that only applies to servers that are advertised on the hub, since direct connection exists. Said servers you talk about already exist, I'm pretty sure there's an existing russian server which allows everything you've brought up here.

 

On the topic of bans for sexual content, while it is zero tolerance, bans are not always applied for light jokes. I personally tend to just ask people to knock it off and that's that. In the case that a ban *is* applied, they're typically all appealable unless the actions were VERY BAD, which is honestly pretty rare.

Edited by Whisper
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2 minutes ago, Whisper said:

Wizard's Den is a 16+ rated collection of servers. Any other unofficial servers are not bound by our personal server rules. While there are hub rules, iirc that only applies to servers that are advertised on the hub, since direct connection exists. Said servers you talk about already exist, I'm pretty sure there's an existing russian server which allows everything you've brought up here.

 

On the topic of bans for sexual content, while it is zero tolerance, bans are not always applies for light jokes. I personally tend to just ask people to knock it off and that's that. In the case that a ban *is* applied, they're typically all appealable unless the actions were VERY BAD, which is honestly pretty rare.

Thank you for your reply. How would I go about finding this Russian server and other servers like this? Are they populated? Is there a list of these servers? If so, where can I find them? If it's something you're not allowed to post publicly in the forum, could you instant message me the list please?

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Hi! I'm not an admin, but I'd like to give my two cents.

There's two things that jumped out to me.

The sexuality pins are for visibility. LGBTQ folks are persecuted for their sexuality, but they are more than their sexuality. They're, you know, people. So the pins are a tool for visibility, which is important for their fight for the right to exist. I'm not sure I'm making myself clear =P

The other thing is this:

"So, for instance, let’s combine. Security beats us down with a giant electric stick... then strips us naked, cuffs us, and then places a ball-gag in our mouth. I cannot tell you how difficult it has been to just sit there and not crack a joke. Before the rules came in, I and many other people did constantly make sex jokes during this."

This gets into very rapey territory. I hope you can understand how problematic this can be. Even the people who like to roleplay this kind of stuff usually have appropriate safety tools at their disposal.

...

I think you do have one valid point, the one about the library books. I can think of others. The sexy xenomorph posters? There must be more. Those suggest to the players that that kind of thing is appropriate. But a lot of other things you say sound like... well, I don't wanna say oversexualization. I don't wanna kink-shame. But very normal police equipment? Doesn't scream sex to me. Bedrooms? Same.

(Are there actually showers? I thought we only had mirrors and sinks and toilets.)

I'd speculate that moderating a server with ERP allowed would be even harder, requiring special attention and special safety tools, and that is just not worth doing unless you really want an ERP server. Especially given how that could interact with the game's violence.

And there's probably a lot of grey area between ERP and non-ERP, and having to decide how erotic is erotic would probably suck, so it's easier to put up very strict rules.

I don't know any western server that'd be receptive to ERP. Here's the relevant part of the current rules on Wizard's Den, Nyanotrasen, and Parkstation, in that order:

"Absolutely no Erotic Roleplay (ERP) or sexual content, including direct or indirect mentions of sexual behavior or actions. (YOU WILL GET PERMABANNED) (Leeway is given to insults, ex: 'You are a dickhead', do not push it)"

"Erotic Roleplay (ERP) is not allowed under any circumstance"

"No engaging in explicit sexual acts."

As you can see, all three of them disallow ERP. Nyano might be more tolerant of ERP adjacent language, but that might be a big maybe. Park has a narrower definition, so they might be less harsh regarding sexual language. Fun fact: there was a time when they didn't disallow ERP. I don't why they changed it.

I also noticed that Mining Station doesn't disallow it... but you may find a tiny mining outpost not very conductive to that. And just cause they didn't bother putting up rules against it, doesn't mean they want it.

And there are a couple of small servers that I've never played on, but whose description suggests they might be welcoming to it: Onyx Station ("absolute freedom") and RealStation ("focus on admin non-interference"). So they might be worth looking into.

I don't think WD is going to change their ways for you, but I hope you can find what you want. It might take some community building to get there, though.

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On 3/30/2023 at 3:02 PM, EVIL_ED said:

I just find this rule to be very befuddling and have to ask why it even exists at all. It seems so silly to me. Understanding why it exists is also important because it can help people understand what our real chances are for official severs that could allow for ERP.

Because most players don't want sex in their funny space game.

Players who do want sex in their funny space game tend to make their own communities for it. They are the exception, not the norm, but they do exist in large enough numbers to justify creating their own servers.

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8 hours ago, Del said:

Nyano might be more tolerant of ERP adjacent language, but that might be a big maybe.

First hand experience, that is not true. Said in Telepathic "Woah mime you give great head" and despite there being no mime, I was perma'd and appeal only'd. (This ban extended to a month, but thats a whole other story)

ERP Jokes like that are and should be banned. I was being weird. And impatient, thats why it was extended. 

Edited by JustAnOrange
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On 4/3/2023 at 12:21 PM, Del said:

The Citadel folks are interested in SS14.

Citadel Sector XIV - General gameplay outline

Citadel Sector XIV main repository

It seems the repo was stale for months, but there has been some recent development. It is also possible that some development is being done secretly, as they're aiming at being partially proprietary. =(

I have a feeling if you made an argument like EVIL_ED here did you'd not last very long on cit.

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Hi I am just going to lock this thread as this type of discussion is not exactly relevant to have for the official servers. The reasons that ERP and sexual remarks/content is/are against the rules are as follows:

  1. The servers are 16+, not 18+. We have minors present and we are not interested in enforcing even more strict age requirements due to server content.
  2. Our administrators/players/maintainers are largely not interested in moderating/playing/coding this kind of content.

I feel like a large portion of what has been brought up as "the game absolutely screaming ERP" seem to be you sexualizing fairly mundane things. This thread will be locked.

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