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SS14 2/4/2024 Appeal Ban Removal (Metagaming / self antag spree)


WYATTWYATT100

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10 hours ago, Chief_Engineer said:

No, the captain never told you to gib anyone, they told you to kill them. Even then, while that may have been interpreted as an order and while it was from the captain, IC actions don't justify breaking server rules. A reckless captain is not justification for the crew to be reckless. Here is what the captain was saying as Landon was continuing to be beaten while dead:

image.png.ca1fe8e65fc52b6412add26cc3b78004.png

The other members of your group may have realized this but you took actions that appeared to be in furtherance of that goal by telling them to beat the person. You certainly would have created a worse situation for yourself had you attacked the person yourself, but the fact that the members of your group ignored your instruction is irrelevant to the fact that you gave the instruction.

You cannot metagrudge an entire department because you've experienced issues with them in the past. If you want to be able to use the excuse that security doesn't do anything in response to a situation you need to have given them the opportunity, and in this case you did not.

There are many concerns, but most of them have been brought up already. Currently the goal is to allow you the opportunity to provide any missing context and to help you understand any issues you're missing with related actions. You'll likely be provided a list of the most serious issues in the closing message of this appeal, regardless of if it is accepted or not.

1. I dont believe I said, "captain said to gib." just to kill and besides that point I never laid a hand on him.

2. In the future I'll try to report it unlike this time but should I do if nothing is still done about it?

3. Alright understood, is there anything else I can help with?

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8 hours ago, WYATTWYATT100 said:

I dont believe I said, "captain said to gib." just to kill and besides that point I never laid a hand on him.

  From your response here

21 hours ago, WYATTWYATT100 said:

the gibbing was called for by the captain

I'm aware you personally did not hit the person who was gibbed.

8 hours ago, WYATTWYATT100 said:

In the future I'll try to report it unlike this time but should I do if nothing is still done about it?

If you report something to security and nothing is done about it you can follow escalation rules. Security's job is to ensure the safety of station, them not doing their job doesn't empower any crewmember to act as security, nor to enact mob justice. This is especially true when whether or not security is doing their job is determined by one or a few crewmembers who likely don't have the full picture. Crew are allowed to act in defense of others or the station in response to things like nukies or certain syndicate activities, but I see no way to equate the situation you've described to one of those.

It's extremely difficult to give you advice for how you could have acted in this situation had you reported the incident to security because by involving yourself in the mob you've created the potential that any force you use against someone could reasonably be believed to result in them being gibbed. Certainly the exact same scenario would have been less problematic had you contacted security first and had they done nothing, but it would not have been without issue.

As a reminder to everyone, your only options for resolving a conflict are not limited to ignoring it, getting sec to do something, or using physical force. You are allowed to bring concerns to heads and solve issues with diplomacy. The CMO doesn't want doctors or chemists beating people for no reason, the HOS doesn't want security to not be doing their job, the HOP's job is not just denying AA requests from the mime but also to be a general advocate and mediator for the crew, and the captain doesn't want departments falling apart there are fights happening and the crew doesn't think security is doing anything about them. As a bonus, bringing complaints to heads is generally completely safe from a rule perspective, harassing a head or someone with complaints might be an issue if your complaints are in bad faith might be an issue, but I can't imagine a situation where a good faith complaint that doesn't come with a threat of violence or disruption could be considered over escalation or self-antagging.

8 hours ago, WYATTWYATT100 said:

Alright understood, is there anything else I can help with?

I don't think so but you're free to provide additional context or clarifications while this appeal is open.

image.png.bc33d4c567502f1e0c0325f43cb6f70b.pngimage.png.a54e0c38b83579a437f56d4e5b55048b.png

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1 hour ago, Chief_Engineer said:

  From your response here

I'm aware you personally did not hit the person who was gibbed.

If you report something to security and nothing is done about it you can follow escalation rules. Security's job is to ensure the safety of station, them not doing their job doesn't empower any crewmember to act as security, nor to enact mob justice. This is especially true when whether or not security is doing their job is determined by one or a few crewmembers who likely don't have the full picture. Crew are allowed to act in defense of others or the station in response to things like nukies or certain syndicate activities, but I see no way to equate the situation you've described to one of those.

It's extremely difficult to give you advice for how you could have acted in this situation had you reported the incident to security because by involving yourself in the mob you've created the potential that any force you use against someone could reasonably be believed to result in them being gibbed. Certainly the exact same scenario would have been less problematic had you contacted security first and had they done nothing, but it would not have been without issue.

As a reminder to everyone, your only options for resolving a conflict are not limited to ignoring it, getting sec to do something, or using physical force. You are allowed to bring concerns to heads and solve issues with diplomacy. The CMO doesn't want doctors or chemists beating people for no reason, the HOS doesn't want security to not be doing their job, the HOP's job is not just denying AA requests from the mime but also to be a general advocate and mediator for the crew, and the captain doesn't want departments falling apart there are fights happening and the crew doesn't think security is doing anything about them. As a bonus, bringing complaints to heads is generally completely safe from a rule perspective, harassing a head or someone with complaints might be an issue if your complaints are in bad faith might be an issue, but I can't imagine a situation where a good faith complaint that doesn't come with a threat of violence or disruption could be considered over escalation or self-antagging.

I don't think so but you're free to provide additional context or clarifications while this appeal is open.

1. Sorry I didnt mean to say captain said Gib must not have been thinking

2. I think thats all I have to share so thank you.

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There are five appeals open across five different users for the same offense. To save everyone some time, I am going to copy/paste this response which will contain dispositions for each player involved in this. These dispositions represent the consensus of the entire administration team, not just myself.

The Issue

A large group of individuals pre-planned an appearance and naming scheme to facilitate identifying one another in-game. This identification of one another was used to form a mob and act as a cohesive unit to which other players had little hope of doing anything against due to the number of players involved. This is metagaming (using outside information, who those other players actually are, to your advantage). This mob of individuals engaged in a large amount of disruptive activity generally taking the form of a protest or riot (saying "peaceful riot" doesn't change the fact you are calling for a riot, which would fall into "calling for strikes, revolutions, cults, etc.").

Regardless of if the metacommunication was done during the round or done before the round to pre-plan this does not matter, we still see it as metacommunication and it was clearly abused to the detriment of other players not involved in it. 

The Verdicts

Rodriguez_Hasselhoff - As this is your second appeal ban, you will remain appeal banned and require a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server to appeal. You may only provide that voucher and an appeal after six months from now (Aug 11, 2023).

Wulfeee - You, alongside Rodriguez, appear to be the primary instigators or organizers of this. It seems clear to us from a discord screenshot provided by randy10122 that you intended to bend the rules to your advantage to facilitate the metamob without using the textbook definition of metacommunications. You also were forum banned while we mysteriously had a bunch of users we had never seen before show up on Rodriguez's first appeal. While I have undone your forum ban, you will remain appeal banned and it is highly unlikely you will successfully appeal your ban without a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server.

WYATTWYATT100 - Your ban will be reduced to one week from now. From what I see in the logs you were clearly orchestrating a mob or riot to the detriment of the station. Multiple instances of you directing the mob or trying to instigate it to cause trouble or antagonize people. You have been cordial within the appeal, so we will step this down to only a week for now.

randy10122 - We will accept this appeal.

Monstrosity - We will accept this appeal.

elixirsoup - We will accept this appeal.

R3TR0_T4P3Z - We will accept this appeal.

 

Our banning policy dictates that the next appeal ban after the first will automatically be a voucher ban. Voucher bans require a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server and are unappealable for six months after they have been issued. For those unbanned, if you wish to continue playing on Wizard's Den we strongly suggest you re-read the rules and be on very good behavior.

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