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[SimaZao] - [Ahelp Disagreement over Captain's announcement]


SimaZao
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SS14 account: SimaZao

Character name: Jeffy Jeff

Type of Ban: Game Ban, Discord Ban

Date of Ban and Duration: 11/14/2022 - Appeal only - Perma

Reason for Ban: My rights are not political. Kick rocks. appeal @ forums.ss14.io This Ban is appeal only.

Server you were playing on when banned: Wizard's Den Lizard [US West]

 

Your side of the story: 

Captain made an in-game announcement "Trans rights are human rights (:"

  1. This same person has frequently made in-game announcements about this topic in the past via the announcements which led me to believe that the person in question was making personal, OOC statements to the station, and using their role as captain to advocate instead of responding to a specific event or some sort of difficulty on the station.
    1. I did not believe it was in the spirit of the rules to be making OOC political, personal, moral announcements repeatedly. Server rules dictate that I should raise my concerns via F1.
  2. I was concerned that other deeply personal issues that affect the diverse SS14 community won't be represented with the same zealousness that this person has for this specific issue.
    1. What about other human rights? What about other social and economic rights? What if issues that matter most to me aren't covered?
      1. Who decides which human rights are the most important? Who decides who gets to make announcements? How many times in a row can you bring up your cause? Can it be done over regular radio too? Is there a limit to how many issues you can advocate for in a single game? Is there a priority list or a queue to sign up for?
      2. What if someone disagrees with my belief? Are they free to voice their opinion?
        1. If I think universal healthcare is a basic human right, and someone else believes that it isn't - can they say so? What if they don't think it is a human right? What if they say something offensive to me? What if I am offended that they don't agree? Will I be able to trust that admins will judge the merits impartially? 
  3. The idea that centuries in the future Central Command/Nanotrasen/etc. even needs to discuss the issue when most of the station is aliens, clones, zombies, etc. presents an in-game scene that is offensive, discriminatory, and backwards. Somehow, deep in the future where there is talking plants and asexual slime aliens, trans people still don't have equal rights - like what in the fuck? 
    1. The repeated announcements indicates that there is some ambiguity of this statement on the station or in Central Command. 
    2. The announcement sets aside trans people as somehow different than everyone else on the diverse SS14 stations.
    3. The announcement suggests that in SS14 trans people need to be defended and advocated for. 
      1. For issues important to me or my friends, I don't want or need someone pretending to be a captain in a video game to bring them up repeatedly or try to be my/our "voice". Especially someone I don't know and had no choice in choosing. 

I ahelped regarding the announcement.

  1. The conversation
    1. I ahelped to privately ask if this was appropriate and said nothing IC or over comms regarding this. I felt this could be easily addressed by an admin without causing offense to other players who may or may not support the messaging.
      1. I was still playing the game as the brief discussion happened and thought I'd receive information regarding this person's conduct and whether it is acceptable.
      2. I mentioned that it isn't fair to have just one person's political views done through captain's announcements and that if it is ok, it should be ok for ANYONE to voice their views. I also said that would be a bad idea because some views might be important and also divisive.  
      3. I was directly questioned on trans rights instead of about the issue I raised by two separate admins.
      4. The Captain was made aware of the ahelp before I received any response and apparently with encouragement proceeded to 'defiantly' double down as if I was against trans rights or their cause and they were 'winning'. That wasn't appropriate response to someone raising their concerns
      5. I was questioned on whether I believe human rights are political, which I affirmed
      6. Admins stated trans rights, and their rights, are not political

I was banned.

 

Why I believe I was right to ask about the issue.

  1. The topic is OOC.
    1. The announcements were unsolicited and not in response to any action/events taking place on the station.
    2. No one was making contrary announcements or claims
    3. No one was discussing the human rights of trans people in game
    4. When the Captain made their announcement, was any of it in character? Would a reasonable person believe that their repeated statements were IC? 
    5. Captain constantly posted emojis which is also OOC
    6. The nuances and reality of the issue regarding our society today - and immediately following a gigantic divisive election season - help show why it shouldn't repeatedly, by the same person, be brought up in SS14
      1. Many people living where the US servers are located have been through a very large election and news cycle where this trans rights, human rights, and many other were raised and voted on. Some people may have had even more activity on this front due to other prominent elections, like in Brazil
  2. The topic is political.
    1. As defined by multiple dictionaries.
    2. The announcements were made repeatedly over time and multiple games which is the definition of advocacy.
    3. I agree trans rights are human rights, however human rights are political. Trans rights are currently the largest political platform of the LGBTQ+ community, a community I'm also a part of.
      1. Trans rights as human rights includes many positive areas of discussion and unity and also many divisive issues. Not everyone agrees on a single solution for every issue, and SS14 isn't a good place to discuss any of the issues such as
        1. Gender reassignment surgery for children
        2. Social services and resources for trans youth
        3. Professional and School sports
        4. Bathroom rights and privacy
        5. Medical care and coverage for transgender patients
        6. Medical treatments, studies, and beliefs.
      2. The three largest political LGBTQ advocacy organizations have trans rights as a/the primary platform.
        1. The ACLU
        2. Amnesty International
        3. The Human Rights Campaign
      3. Here are some articles from publications indicating the political nature of the issue.
        1. Trans rights divides political rivals, young and old in the United States | Reuters
        2. Transgender rights emerge as political flashpoint - The Washington Post
        3. Why trans rights is the most explosive issue in politics | British GQ (gq-magazine.co.uk)
        4. Transgender Americans Feel Under Attack as Political Vitriol Rises - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
      4. Many rights the community shares or values are political. The US where the server is hosted is a prime example. Many of the rights US citizens believe to be Human Rights are laid out in the US Constitution and have recently or currently been the subject of national news and political discourse. Will any of these issues be promoted or brought to the attention of the station? What issues are being ignored? Do issues that get no mention or support matter?
        1. The 1st Amendment is debated nationally regarding censorship, social media, and content
        2. The 2nd Amendment is debated nationally regarding gun control, violent crime, and school safety
        3. The 4th Amendment is debated nationally regarding civil asset forfeitures and data privacy
        4. The 6th Amendment regarding racial equity and disparities in trial outcomes
        5. The 8th Amendment regarding criminal justice reform and the fairness and equity of the cash bail system
        6. The 10th Amendment regarding a recent dramatic change of abortion rights in the US
        7. The 12th Amendment regarding the 2020 election
        8. The 14th Amendment regarding the status and legal protections of migrants/illegal immigrants in the US
        9. The 15th, 20th, 24th, 26th, and 27th Amendments have also recently or currently been in the national news and political discourse.
    4. Politics does not make video games more fun, in fact it is incredibly divisive. Some opinions are more popular than others, but at some point, you are going to have an opinion that is in the minority, and you won't want other people persecuting you for your beliefs or thoughts.
      1.  I want to hear whether beating a clown into crit is appropriate for constant slipping. I want to hear whether an engineer setting up the singuloose is actually a self-antag. I want to be torn apart by a random surprise carp. I don't want to hear about supporting this or opposing that, repeatedly. It's not SS14, and it's not in the spirit of the rules.
  3. What is fair for other players?
    1. I believe that in a situation where this conduct is approved of and encouraged, other opinions, beliefs, morals, would and SHOULD be accommodated, in fairness, and I immediately envision someone using the announcement console to share other, important, and meaningful messages which could easily be very divisive or sensitive to some.
      1. I'll provide an example, not because it is views that I hold, but because I believe it might be effective to make a point. Imagine "Bob" playing doctor and each time he drags you into the cloning booth, or onto a medical bed he whispers in your ear "Unborn lives are human lives ;)" and carries on his day. No harm was done, no one was hurt, and you get treated and are "Good to go". Bob in five small words would have shared his belief about human rights with you. He would have to treat the entire crew in order to have a similar impact as an announcement from their captain (the captain having near unchallenged power) would have. 
        1. What are you supposed to do in this situation if you disagree with him? If you argue with him in-game you are either confirming that he was saying that for in-game reasons or you are arguing OOC. If you F1 it, you might get an admin that strongly agrees with him and bans you instead for being "against" his view. You could protest and start telling people you meet that he is wrong or offer an opposing message. You could stay silent and accept that his conduct is both appropriate and in character and perhaps hope he doesn't do it all the time, but what if he doesn't do it just one time, but every time you see him?
        2. Even if I agreed with Bob, I would feel very uncomfortable with and around this player.
          1. Would you feel comfortable in this situation? Can you imagine some players being uncomfortable?
        3. Would you believe Bob was talking about his beliefs in game, or his personal OOC beliefs?
        4. Would you believe you knew other beliefs Bob held? How about people that support Bob?

What are the rules?  

Do not use text speak (ex: "lol", "wtf", "brb", "lmao", "thx", "sgtm") or emoticons (ex: ":)", "xD") in-character. Nobody speaks like that. You will be warned to stop.

These servers are "Low Roleplay", meaning that while you don't need to be perfectly in character, basic roleplaying standards like not using emoji/emoticons or textspeak...are expected to be followed.

Act like an actual human being on a space station in a low-roleplay (LRP) environment. You do not need to feign ignorance of things outside your job or write a character backstory, but you are at the minimum expected to maintain a basic level of roleplay.

Not all conflicts should be solved IC. If you have reason to believe a conflict is over-escalating or interferes with the round in a detrimental way, admin help the situation (F1) so it can be addressed.

The Golden rule. Admins can disregard any and all rules if they deem it in the best interest of the current round, server, and/or community at large. If you rule skirt, rule lawyer, or otherwise are an overall negative impact to the community, you will be removed. Admins will of course be held fully accountable for their actions if they exercise this privilege.

  1. Politics and political issues aren't "expressly" covered in the rules, but I believe the rules do cover the issue - especially in spirit.
    1. You should be making an effort to be in-character and should be acting like someone on the space station.
  2. You shouldn't be using emojis.
  3. You should F1 concerns.
  4. Everything was discussed privately so no one in the round, server, or community was impacted by the disagreement

Why I think I should be unbanned:  

  1. The disagreement over the definition of a commonplace word shouldn't be an offense.
  2. I believe the Reason for Ban "My rights are not political. Kick rocksproves that this is a very personal, current topic for some/many people and not appropriate for repeated Captain's announcements.
    1. I believe the ban was an emotionally charged response and that the questioning/interrogation I received by two separate admins at the same time was neither fair nor just. I don't feel my original question was ever considered, and I believe that the admins discriminated against me based on their perception of my political views - views I did not share and should not have to share to defend asking about another player's conduct and what is appropriate on the station.
    2. I was also asked by an admin about my profile picture on Discord before being banned from Nyanotrasen as well. I don't know if the admins were looking at my profile while they were talking to me and judging me based on my gender, race, or appearance. SS14 players shouldn't have to wonder if admins are examining their physical appearance before being banned. 
  3. At no point in time was I warned or made aware that asking about this would result in a ban from the game and discord.
  4. Banning me did not help the round, server, or community at large. As a member of this community, I try to follow the rules and ensure others do as well. Beyond an incident where I thought I was funny by spacing disposals as a non-antag (I turned myself in and was later reprimanded) I think other members of the community including some admins, know that I am making an effort to do well by the server rules and be helpful to the station and crew.
    1. I've been courteous, followed all server and forum rules regarding forwarding my question to ahelp for clarification. I never voiced any in-game opinion on the subject or said anything over comms, preferring to privately ask admins about the conduct - exactly as described in the rules. I think asking admins about this kind of behavior is the appropriate way to understand what conduct is allowed when it is not expressly covered in the server rules. 
    2. Believing the server should be free of any politics and real-world issues isn't harmful to anyone, even if you vehemently disagree.

Anything else we should know?

Should the decision be made to not unban me, I still believe that the server and the community that plays it will be better off in the long run if the rules are clarified to indicate that real world issues, struggles, politics, etc. should be left at the log in screen. SS14 is set in the future and should be treated as such. Discussions about trans rights, as well as many others, should be antiquated and offensive.

For important issues, alternatives such as the Discord server where one could really discuss subjects at length or easily mute someone they don't want to hear should be considered. If someone really wants or needs to talk or get support about serious issues important to them, Discord offers a distraction free alternative where you can focus on the conversation and words, without random shit getting in the way. I'd 100% rather have a serious chat via discord than in-game - especially if the other person needs support or help. 

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time to read my side and keeping an open mind.

 

 

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On 12/12/2022 at 4:50 PM, SimaZao said:

I was also asked by an admin about my profile picture on Discord before being banned from Nyanotrasen as well. I don't know if the admins were looking at my profile while they were talking to me and judging me based on my gender, race, or appearance. SS14 players shouldn't have to wonder if admins are examining their physical appearance before being banned. 

Nyanotrasen is a separate and independent entity from this forum or Wizard's den. In other words. Complaining about it here will get you nowhere.

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Cult of the Many Eyed Birb

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I can appreciate the fact that Nyanotrasen is separate from Wizard's Den and this forum. I also see that I failed to mention the period of time that had elapsed which made it feel relevant enough for me to mention. The Wizard's Den ahelp conversation, game ban, discord ban, and ban from Nyano happened in about five minutes. I don't expect or want anyone here to speak for Nyano or to focus on their own rules, people, etc. 

I've only played on Nyano ~twice and not in month/s, and never once commented on their discord. I found that the event regarding the Nyano admin was related and pertinent to my point about my experience with ahelp.

From my point of view, it appeared as though I was speaking directly to Wizard's Den admins, multiple admins were questioning me, and an admin from Nyano server starts asking about my personal appearance at the same time I was being banned from both the servers and told to "kick rocks". It did not feel like a coincidence, and it did not feel like a friendly inquiry.

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Hello,

Although Nyano is separate from WizDen, they are one of WizDen's partnered servers. As such Wizden's and Nyano's admins share some data about their more "problematic" players. I have already seen people who were banned on WizDen's get automatically banned from Nyano with the reason being in relation to Wizard.

I would also like to add that the admins of Nyano definitely talked about your case while it was being handeled on WizDen and slandered you in admin chat which I do not agree on, in terms of transparency or honesty.

It also appears you made a well written appeal explaining your POV and you're only recieving a toxic response as well as admins avoiding the real issue of asking about OOC and getting banned for an assumed political opinion. I do not believe you are trans-ist but that you were instead genuilnely worried about the captain breaking other roleplayer's immersion with their political statement.

Kindly, 

Edited by Lightbaker
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Appreciate the clarification and transparency regarding Nyano Lightbaker. It raises other questions about what was being said on WizDen that I have no means of discovering. I can only speculate that it wasn't very good if Nyano admins felt so hostile towards me.

 

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21 minutes ago, SimaZao said:

Appreciate the clarification and transparency regarding Nyano Lightbaker. It raises other questions about what was being said on WizDen that I have no means of discovering. I can only speculate that it wasn't very good if Nyano admins felt so hostile towards me.

 

That guy has never connected to Nyano once (or is an alt account) and several parts of his post make no sense. There is no such thing as a 'partnered server' and you were not discussed in any admin chats I am privy to.

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Hi SimaZao,

We've went over your appeal and have come to a verdict. We will not be lifting your ban at this time.

Due to your behavior and interaction with other members, it would harm the overall experience of Wizard's Den's community servers if you were to interact with such mannerisms with others again.

Edited by mushroomLavender
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