What is expected of admins and players regarding reports on past events?

[Myctai_web]

I adminhelp a lot. You are probably well annoyed by Discord relay and messages from me. But I am trying to do it in good faith, my interest being all rule-breaking behavior being handled.

I also do not adminhelp immediately as thing happens. Most of time, bad thing happens because of antagonist activity and players usually have better things to do than standing still in hallway and making detailed report on event.

I personally expect no response from adminhelps. Simple "handled" or "looking into it" are nice. Yet today I got rather rude response. I got critical of admin conduct. And get told to knock it off, not blaming anyone for that.

Whole interaction leaves sour taste.

So... My list of questions would be:

1. Are players expected to make adminhelp messages over events that happened good while ago, as in, one or few rounds ago?
2. Are admins expected to handle those reports?

Attaching adminhelp log as screenshot in zip archive, forum will eat image otherwise. Feel free to edit my post to include image or remove attachment instead if deemed inappropriate to disclose.

adminhelping_is_tricky_subject.png.zip

[Stealth16]

Ahelp relays from you related to the incident:

Quote

Myctai: What happened during #13493? Jakob Stough/philberto, non-antag doctor, claimed "That giy is probably gonna kill someone" "Ryan mason" "I can just tell". Later on Ryan Mason/Obungus, non-antag cook and perma prisoner, ended up dead in brig morgue tray and disconnected. Was this handled? Perma had 3 prisoners total at the time: non-antag Ryan Mason/Obungus, non-antag Flint Steele/Chaplain and syndie Phillip M Hunt/Coles_Magnum. Question is, why perma had two non-antags and one of them died?
Retequizzle: no myctai because i'm not psychic and had no idea this happened until you ahelped about it
Retequizzle: flint steele was dealt with, obungus was ahelping about everything except being in prison, and phillip was fine with where he was at so i left him there to play the trial out
Myctai: That's not helpful response. I do not expect you to catch all events as they happen, but I do expect someone to dig into logs to find the truth. I think cook was getting into fights in rule-breaking manner. No idea about Flint, HoS was not best.
Retequizzle: in the future if you see something happening, ahelp it as it's happening and not 20 minutes after the fact
Retequizzle: i can't be everywhere at once and i'm not omnipotent
moony: Hi. For the record, do not give admins shit over a problem you didn't even ahelp prior, expecting them to have divined your problem with mind reading.
moony: It is incredbily rude and even if the other staff might tolerate it, I will not.
moony: Got it?
Myctai: Thing is, I don't expect them to divine shit. I want them to check logs.
Myctai: I'll comment on this later, gimme some time.
moony: Maybe ahelp the problem at the time of the problem.
Myctai: F1 every time antagonism happens is silly 

Quote

moony: Logs are much harder to read and make solving your problem much more difficult.
Myctai: code issue.
moony: End of discussion. Further behavior like you did in ahelp earlier will result in a short break.
Myctai: Noted.
moony: You come off as incredibly rude in ahelps and I'm not going to allow that. 

If you expect anything to happen, you should be ahelping proactively rather than retroactively. It is not always possible, much less plausible, to handle bans for things that happened an hour ago or longer.

The vagueness of your requests do not help. You presented, in essence, three unrelated points (as I understand them).

1. What happened during this round, related to this vague conjecture about a unnamed person?

2. Was this issue (that was not reported) handled?

3. Perma had three people. Why were all three people (two of which not being antags) in perma this round? (we do not have "logs" for people entering or exiting jail because there isnt an internal criminal records nor jail timer system to log that information yet. short of players saying "i am now in perma" it is virtually impossible to tell via a text log when a player was placed into perma)

If you had presented any one of these things ahead of time, it would have not only been infinitely easier to investigate, but it would have been possible to fix. What exactly are you expecting when admins "check logs" for three people in perma? Why do you believe that backreading an entire round (usually 60+ minutes) log for something that might have been a rule break that was not reported during the round is a productive use of an admin's time? Why do you believe that the admin telling you to report proactively is a difficult request?

[Myctai_web]

I do try to provide information early. For example, someone attacking people at random not in way indicative of syndie activity is likely to get me to adminhelp about that quickly. Yet unlike admin I am forced act upon incomplete information.

Once round report shows, I often spot that people who should have been syndies based on their behavior were not, and thus I proceed to create reports for past.

Alternative would be dropping messages like "John Doe is acting kinda suspicious, care to watch them?" all the time. I would expect that noise to be mostly about complete non-issues.

I personally enjoy reading logs for rounds I played. Perhaps that is just thing for me, but I do like to uncover things I've missed during game. I would rather play one round and read logs for it for duration of few rounds than ignore logs and play non-stop. If you introduce public server logs (for tgstation they look like this: some recent lowpop round of Manuel), you can expect me to read that instead and confirm that rule-breaking behavior took place before bothering any admin about that.

It is impossible to act proactively on "two non-antags did something sketchy and went to perma" when you don't know that those players were non-antags for sure.

[Stealth16]

4 hours ago, Myctai_web said:

Alternative would be dropping messages like "John Doe is acting kinda suspicious, care to watch them?" all the time. I would expect that noise to be mostly about complete non-issues.

I would much rather you report antags doing antag things than not report non-antags doing antag things. But you also should not report someone for “being suspicious.” You should report them if they are breaking a rule.